Wrc+

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Originally Posted by Franky

You should market to your target audience, not to secondary audience. After all, it's only the fans who tune in to the broadcasts as loyal viewers.

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When this started, casual TV viewers were the the target audience: they took their TV highlights package that went to TV channels, and they put it on a paid website to sell it to some extra people. Plus they added the onboards, and finally the 3 live stages (the only thing that was new for WRC+). So it was mostly "shovelware". They took stuff they had already made for random TV viewers, added a bit for enthusiasts, and tried it out to see whether it sold.

Now that they have the "all live" version, it's more of an enthusiast product. But they're still producing a lot of it as if it were for mass market TV. They still have John Desborough, for crying out loud.

Also, filming rally is very expensive. They will pad the actual rallying with anything else they can get away with (interviews, standing starts, commentators jabbering) to keep the cost down by showing as little rally as possible. :(

All Live is effectively an rally enthusiasts service but still being produced by TV people who dont know (or care?) what we really want to see and hear.

Most of us dont want a 'show', we just want the most relevant raw pictures, pure sound and live split times.

6 € / month (that´s 1,5€ / rally day and if there is 2 rallies in same month it´s 0,75€ / rally day)

and some of you are still moaning

LOL

I´m happy.

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Originally Posted by pantealex

6 € / month (that´s 1,5€ / rally day and if there is 2 rallies in same month it´s 0,75€ / rally day)

and some of you are still moaning

LOL



I´m happy.

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Me happy to, price is good for what you get. Ok broadcasting troubles should be solved, thats not ok.
I like the show, also not complaining about comentary.

More ways to watch BT Sport:
http://sport.bt.com/news/watch-bt-sp...11364334308554

Also says they will be giving viewers more options to personalise their viewing and audio.

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Originally Posted by Franky

No offense, but your post with the last sentence is one of the most stupid things posted here recently.

1. One transmission feed
2. Another transmission feed which would be nearly identical to the first transmission feed. Technically it would be the base feed. That's already two different transmission outputs and you'll need two different mixers for it.
3. Not a feed, but a video gallery as you proposed.
4&5. There are three different cameras on board. Unless the feed is only single camera, then it would require one mixer per feed. Also the onboard signal is not constant. Imagine the moaning here.
6. Yet another mixer.
...
All of it would cost a nice number and increase the logistical head ache significantly.

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Are you being payed by alllive to spread that bullshit?
I could stream 5 different camera angles from my kitchen live with my home pc and less then a thousand euro for christ sake.

They have all the input feet, all they need to do is send it back out. They don't need anything but a pc and a decent internet connection. There's no need to mix or edit anything, giving viewers the option too choose between different raw feeds is all we want.

There are thousands of sites that can do it, kanaal+ did it 20 years ago with f1 on regular television.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Like it's been explained many times now, it would not possible to chose from onboards because they only have signal over 10km meaning it's probably only two cars within that area.
It was pretty stable all last year apart from MC, just because they had one hickup with the new software now it's still really good, and we only missed two stages.

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I could put smartphones in every car and stream every stage live on facebook.

The technology is there, they just don't want to.

Yeah, right. Make an offer for them then.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

I could stream 5 different camera angles from my kitchen live with my home pc and less then a thousand euro for christ sake.

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Does your kitchen move at 180 km/h in the mountains and forests?

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Originally Posted by denkimi

I could put smartphones in every car and stream every stage live on facebook.

The technology is there, they just don't want to.

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On most stages in the WRC you can't even get on FB, i know on Röjden and Svullrya in some places you can barely send a text.
Spain also had really bad connection. So how would you sort that out?

I do think there's a reason they use 150.000€ kits in each car for camera's and satellite signal through the repeater plane and not a smartphone ;)

They could move every rally to denkimi's kitchen. :rolleyes:

I am sure what denkimi is suggesting is doable on a technical level, the question is if the promoter considers it worth doing.

Of course you can set up an own 4G network to every rally site, or stream 5 different angles from denkimi's kitchen, even though if you want to do HD thousand euros may not be enough, but neither of them surely won't be worth doing.

The tour de france cycles 200+ kilometres a day through forests, mountains, villages and sometimes atrocious weather. Yet they manage to bring each and every stage, start to finish, in the very best quality on your tv-screens. In fact you can turn on Eurosport and you'll see minor cycling races from every corner of the globe live. There is no excuse why the wrc cannot do that either.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

On most stages in the WRC you can't even get on FB, i know on Röjden and Svullrya in some places you can barely send a text.
Spain also had really bad connection. So how would you sort that out?

I do think there's a reason they use 150.000€ kits in each car for camera's and satellite signal through the repeater plane and not a smartphone ;)

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I mean that comment goes for pretty much the entirety of Wales, let alone the rally stage sections...

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Originally Posted by Lousada

The tour de france cycles 200+ kilometres a day through forests, mountains, villages and sometimes atrocious weather. Yet they manage to bring each and every stage, start to finish, in the very best quality on your tv-screens. In fact you can turn on Eurosport and you'll see minor cycling races from every corner of the globe live. There is no excuse why the wrc cannot do that either.

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Now you're just being ridiculous.

How many bikes have cameras on them? How fast do the bikes travel? Do they travel on uneven terrain?

I've watched a lot of cycling, and there are RF drop outs from the motorbike cameras all the time.

And guess what, it's the same company that supplies a lot of the equipment and technology for the Tour de France and the WRC: AMP Visual TV.

Are you suggesting they do a bad job in WRC because they want to, or perhaps one is just inherently more difficult than the other?

If you think it's so easy, why doesn't ASO, the company that promotes the tour de France also do it for the Dakar?

This is just from the top of my head, but I would guess Tour de France has a lot of more viewers and therefore a lot more budget for televising.

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Originally Posted by Googol

Of course you can set up an own 4G network to every rally site, or stream 5 different angles from denkimi's kitchen, even though if you want to do HD thousand euros may not be enough, but neither of them surely won't be worth doing.

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That is one way but wouldn't work without many big transmitter towers i guess, they did it on a "minutt by minutt" broadcast in Norway this summer broadcasting all day for four 5 day trips from this backpack and guys on the mountains around with transmitters, dropped out a lot in the forests.
https://nrkbeta.no/2018/07/21/bak-ku...tt-for-minutt/

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Originally Posted by Lousada

The tour de france cycles 200+ kilometres a day through forests, mountains, villages and sometimes atrocious weather. Yet they manage to bring each and every stage, start to finish, in the very best quality on your tv-screens. In fact you can turn on Eurosport and you'll see minor cycling races from every corner of the globe live. There is no excuse why the wrc cannot do that either.

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WRC does that nowadays. The quality is bad to mediocre in WRC+, but it's not that Eurosport Player is/was excellent either. It's not the lack of amount of production why no/few TV channel shows all of it. It's just easier to sell regular time TdF stages into a middle of the replay season or an hour or two of smaller race, instead of 15 hours of program for 2,5 days with irregular gaps between show times, meaning that it pretty much occupies a channel for full 2,5 days.

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Originally Posted by Lousada

The tour de france cycles 200+ kilometres a day through forests, mountains, villages and sometimes atrocious weather. Yet they manage to bring each and every stage, start to finish, in the very best quality on your tv-screens. In fact you can turn on Eurosport and you'll see minor cycling races from every corner of the globe live. There is no excuse why the wrc cannot do that either.

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Like rallyfiend said they use same type of tech.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/eyes...-to-the-world/

They could get better signal and action in WRC if they put MotoGP-rider+cameraman riding infront of ever car.
https://www.aso.fr/img/photos/televi...ance-01-hd.jpg

On a serious note, it's all about the budget. I'm sure the production could be better if there was £1 billion TV contracts like in F1.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Are you being payed by alllive to spread that bullshit?

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If I'd only be on their payroll..

The main thing I and some others want is a pure sound audio option. Is that technically difficult and costly ?

Now that they already have option for commentary languages it can't be hard to add one more audio option.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Does your kitchen move at 180 km/h in the mountains and forests?

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

On most stages in the WRC you can't even get on FB, i know on Röjden and Svullrya in some places you can barely send a text.
Spain also had really bad connection. So how would you sort that out?

I do think there's a reason they use 150.000€ kits in each car for camera's and satellite signal through the repeater plane and not a smartphone ;)

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Why are you all trying to invent all those stupid reason for their failure?

The cameras are there, the transmittors are there, the helis/planes are there. Everything they need is already being used.
If they can switch cameras in the studio they get different feeds into that studio. So they can also send those feeds back out so people can watch them instead of stupid interviews.

Of course you will not be able to follow everyone all the time, but the helicam, the stationary camera's and at least 2 to 3 onboard cameras should be available at all time. There is no technical or financial reason why i should watch the start instead of an onboard.

Eurosport could do it 10 years ago, and that was before the time of smartphones, 4g or even drones.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

Why are you all trying to invent all those stupid reason for their failure?

The cameras are there, the transmittors are there, the helis/planes are there. Everything they need is already being used.
If they can switch cameras in the studio they get different feeds into that studio. So they can also send those feeds back out so people can watch them instead of stupid interviews.

Of course you will not be able to follow everyone all the time, but the helicam, the stationary camera's and at least 2 to 3 onboard cameras should be available at all time. There is no technical or financial reason why i should watch the start instead of an onboard.

Eurosport could do it 10 years ago, and that was before the time of smartphones, 4g or even drones.

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I tell you what. Why don't you choose a rally local to you, put all this in place, and send us all a link to watch it?

Hell, pick even just one stage.

At any one time there are already several feeds to the studio (wherever that is) and the question is why can’t they make this available to the subscribers.
Of course we know what the answer is, the promoter can’t cope with the current demand on their service and to enrich the service will inevitably cost money, which obviously they consider unnecessary. My impression is they try to get away with the minimum possible expenditure and only add value to the service when, for whatever reason, they think they have no other choice or must be seen to be doing something.

Why do you keep on talking about mobile phones or 4g when they don't help at all? Also, if working cameras keep on changing, would the viewer need also constantly switch between them?

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I tell you what. Why don't you choose a rally local to you, put all this in place, and send us all a link to watch it?

Hell, pick even just one stage.

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If you pay me 10 thousand euro i'll be happy to do that for you.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...nt-motor-sport

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...nt-motor-sport

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Richards says he wanted to start live streaming in 2000. What was the level of streaming technology back then? I think I didn't even have a broadband internet connection at the time, it only started becoming a household necessity in the next few years.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...nt-motor-sport

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Useless article, just someone saying "I knew it". Even if they had that technology to produce it, back in 2000 the world wasn't ready for it.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Richards says he wanted to start live streaming in 2000. What was the level of streaming technology back then? I think I didn't even have a broadband internet connection at the time, it only started becoming a household necessity in the next few years.

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Correct. We were still on dial-up until about 2004.

Streaming wasnt a thing until broadband came along. And even then I seem to remember it was mostly illegal peer-to-peer for live sport on foreign tv stations.

I think he's getting confused. There used to be a lot of talk about showing live WRC stages on tv around 2000.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...nt-motor-sport

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That was way too early for streaming IMO, both for most customers to receive and the WRC to provide. The manufacturers were right to want to stick with terrestrial television wherever possible, it should still be a primary aim of the promoter.

Once a streaming service became more viable, maybe mid to late 2000s, the mainstream audience and money had already slipped away. I don't think streaming was the answer to that problem anyway.

Realistically in hindsight I think the WRC should have launched All Live in 2012. Eurosport had proven the ability to broadcast entire events live. Broadband internet was widely available. VW were known to be returning. There was a buzz around that time. Unlikely, but maybe Ford and MINI would have been encouraged to stay if they'd been shown some direction by the WRC... Obviously the instability around the Promoter at that time probably precluded any serious planning, so that was that. If only the rich Russian had hit the ground running and sorted this out in 2011 before getting nicked! :D

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Correct. We were still on dial-up until about 2004.

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ADSL was available on y2k but was expensive luxury.

Richards was dreaming about streaming in 2000 in the UK...

"By 2009, 50 percent of Britons had access to broadband in their homes, with broadband connections becoming robust enough to stream videos online."

Richards was maybe dreaming, but in the final did nothing. It was mainly about big words, but result was quite poor.

Just got the message that, as expected, Paypal couldn't get in touch with the seller, i.e. WRC Promoter, and as a result have ruled in my favour on my opened case and have refunded my last payment.

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Originally Posted by NickRally

Just got the message that, as expected, Paypal couldn't get in touch with the seller, i.e. WRC Promoter, and as a result have ruled in my favour on my opened case and have refunded my last payment.

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Great customer service....

Do you think we'll get a livestream of shakedowns, like in Monaco?

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Originally Posted by flykas

Do you think we'll get a livestream of shakedowns, like in Monaco?

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Yes. Becs confirmed on twitter

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Yes. Becs confirmed on twitter

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Is not on the schedule on WRC+...