I believe it will be more interesting and exciting than this year, but I also believe Ogier and VW will be champions again at the end of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Printable View
I believe it will be more interesting and exciting than this year, but I also believe Ogier and VW will be champions again at the end of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I am afraid Hyundai will not be so strong from the beginning...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
ÄÄÄäääsch tror int'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Looking back, every time teams from Asia decide to do everything themselves it is a katastrof. Or 'une grand bordell'
Look back at Mazda, then especially Nissan with their GTI-R. wrong wrong wron, heavy, no power more in the Group A than the Group N, complicated...and no results so they quit...
Look how Hyundai themselves did when they were last around....tsk tsk tsk, inte vackert, pojke.
From the propaganda i read, they seemed to be saying "We do everything in house" I guess only thing we can say what they say in California: Like, whatever, dude.
And of course rotsa rucka
Completely disagree with you janvanvurpa. Except for Mazda all you typed is BS imho. How about Mitsubishi and Toyota?
Hyundai WRT in early 2000's was run by MSD and has no relation to the current team. The team is based in Germany, they recruited many talented people who already gained experience in other (factory) teams, so the knowhow is there. Being one of the biggest manufacturers in the world, money can't be an issue either. It reminds me about TTE (Toyota Team Europe) in fact. :)
agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Oh for chirst sakes. Ove Anderson TTE operation was Asian ? All the accents I heard were all Swedish and English when talking to them at WRC events. Andrew Cowan from Rugby was Japanese? Dave Richards, I though he was English? Gartrac is in Surrey,Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
I said "What I have read--propaganda---they said they will do EVERYTHING in house"..
That is the gist the essence of what I have READ..
Don't say BS.. that's rude..
Now what I read MAY be BS...now way of knowing who is going to do engine development for them, who will make suspension for them---I said when JAPANESE/Asians have retained control, it has been......"
I am speaking in the LONG term--all the back in the old days of Group 1/2/4 into the Group B days and the early Group A days.
Until the factories hired experienced English and Swedes, they did very little results and a lot of wrong things.
But what I have SEEN both in this sport and in the sport I did so seriously years ago is what I said...when it comes to that eventually ALL the Japanese motorcycle companies ALL hired Swedes --who were all ex-Husqvarna people--to do development on their MX bikes--only after 3-5 years of this were the Japanese bikes sold to the public any good for the job.
Same thing...The competition at home is simply not intense enough that the engineering staff and the designers have grown up understanding how hard it is...
Thus they hire experienced Europeans, then things happen.
We'll see. No need to call BS
I guess it´s not about who´s doing what. It´s about brands and they are one more next year. And drivers swapped between teams. Some newcomers and some who hasn´t had the opportunity to do full season until now. That´s what I call exciting. And you´ll have to agrre many things has changed for next year.
I do think the Japanese/Korean carmakers has understood it´s not just coming and winning. Huyndai for sure has a bit another focus this time. Let´s hopr they´ll succeed.
And John, Mazda did win a lot, only Huyndai did a miserable try last time. This time they have a quite different approach...
BTW, nice to hear from you mate Janvanvurpa. Hur mås det?
Janvanvurpa, almost all You wrote is soooo much misinformed that it hurts.
First You write about how Asian companies who decided to do all themselves failed and than You name Hyundai first attempt while that one was exact opposite. They did nothing themselves that time!
Than You answer to Tom that what they do now is different to what TTE did. No, it is not different. In fact it is totally same. What they did? They created a European based team (same as TTE), hired all best possible people mostly Europeans (same as TTE) and gave them virtually unlimited resources (same as TTE).
Hyundai team principal is French Michel Nandan (he was co-creator of Peugeot 206, 307 WRC and also underfunded Suzuki SX4 WRC), technical director is French Bertrand Vallat (co-creator of 206, 307 WRC, 207 S2000, 208 R5, and I believe also Citroën cars C4 and DS3 WRC and DS3 R5). Another team manager is Belgian Alain Penasse who is another quite well known person in the rally world. Further as far as I know some dozen of people left Škoda Motorsport for Hyundai (from Škoda alone!), most of them were external guys and the best known one is Belgian Yannick Willocx (car engineer who came with Loix and later worked with Hänninen, Kopecký and Lappi).
Which test drivers they hired at the start? Hänninen and Bouffier. Hänninen worked on Fabia S2000 and Polo WRC development. Bouffier on all PSA cars.
Now let's have a look on what they use...
There was a lot of pressure to use Hankook tyres as the company is global partner for Hyundai but hey, there are Michelins on the WRC. Why? Because they are the best. Which electronics they use? Italian Magnetti-Marelli which is without doubts one of the very best suppliers in the world. Which dampers they chose? Dutch Reiger. Why? Because those are well known as perfectly suiting for rallying. Which transmission they use? British X-Trac. Which brakes? Italian Brembo. Who prepares the engine? I don't know who does it now but at least at the start it was French Pipo Moteurs.
Another example that they know what they are doing... They have stock 1.6 turbo engine, pretty good one I have to say (over 200 Hp in stock variant) but they decided for a purpose built unit made new from scratch. Why? Because it's better for racing use, especially for reliability and for better bore/stroke ratio. VW and Citroën use purpose built short stroke units. M-Sport has engine based on stock two liter I believe (so they could shorten the stroke to something similar to VW and Citroën) while Mini (BMW) based the engine on stock long stroke 1.6T EP6CDT with completely opposite bore/stroke ratio to all others.
According to VM the current one should be in-house-built unit right now. Previous versions were by Pipo before they got their own operations running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Mirek spot on in general - as usual :). Hyundai does the right things to be very successful 2015-->.
Thanks
All i said is I read somewhere that they wanted to do "everything in house'...Jeeeezuz. I think we can agree that IF that was true, and i don't recall where I read it, and honestly rally press is notoriously superficial, then that didn't look like a sign of "immediate success" as some are dreaming..
I was mainly thinking back to when the Japanese ran cars in the 70s totally inadequate--a hundred HP less than Escorts, 100+ kg heavier
Or as i said Nissan's GTI-R..
You're connected Mirek, you are virtually in the business and are well informed and interested but I have to say I don't have the time to pay that much attention to Hyundai---I'm busy making parts for our little tiny rally scene in North America....I didn't pay much attention to Mini either---I knew it would be some fiasco, under budgeted, and wrong appoach..
Part of the lack of interest is the enormous difficulty in finding anything like the information we once had for cars when they made 5000 of them and I could go item by item thru homologation papers..Now such a simple thing as "how much suspension travel---a key part of the car----" is, so far impossible to find with certainty... Hard to be interested in people on forum saying "they're soooooooooooooooo cooooool, that just have to have .5 meter suspension travel cause I saw a video blah blah...
I want solid info...in a day when I should be a good consumer and just shut up and buy hats and brullies and energy drinks.
And you don't see how it might be a problem when you start forming opinions based on forty year-old information?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys
Here's an opinion based on fresh information:
What a jerk.
The point was that there seems to have BEEN a trend from then to recently.
To you have an inkling of what they did then? Or in the 80s or the early 90s for some?
Or was that too high a reach for a monkey's reasoning capacities? :uhoh:
I have an excellent idea of what they did next, thank you for asking. After all, I use the Japanese car industry as a case study for my senior Business and Economics classes. It's also worth noting that the Korean car industry in general and Hyundai in particular underwent the same cycle ad the Japanese did twenty years previously.
Does anyone know what will happen with Novikov? Is there a chance we will see him in a WRC car next year?
I do not believe itQuote:
Originally Posted by tobbe3
The Mini project was a completely different situation. Underfunded and unsure from the start with a manufacturer disinterested in rallying, doomed to fail. A pity as that chassis had massive potential. As Mirek said, the Hyundai approach is far more committed and they have taken the right steps..it took TTE a few years to get going, but when they did..
From Colin Clark
Rumours this morning that an objection has gone to the FIA against the proposed paddle shift modification for Kubica. Anyone know anymore?
If this is true, i hope that team who gave in that objection will be so hated that they leave the championship... i hate them already!!!!!!!!!!! F*****g idiotic cowards!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dug83
Rumour is VW, wouldn't have thought they would have much to worry about.
Here's the source:
http://motor.as.com/motor/2013/12/13/ma ... 66307.html
Nice to read all comments about upcoming season, but I think that Ogier will be even stronger this year. He is by far experienced with his Polo, which gives him even more self-confidence than in 2013. So that winning another world-title will be a piece of cake for him ( for the sake of interest I hope I'm wrong...)
But I agree that we can expect interesting fights for second, third, fourt position......
I would not jump into too quick conclusions unless You know the whole story (I don't).Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyRally
i said: "if this is true"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
A number of factors will change next season, I still think the championship will be Ogier's to loose but we will have to see if Mikko gets back on form. If Mikko's consistency was enough to challenge Loeb occasionally it's more than reasonable to say it can work aswell against Ogier, plus Ogier keeps having the odd mistake here and there. It also remains to see what can Latvala do, if he dosen't match his team mate next season that may be good confirmation that we most probably will never see him as champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
I think that Ogier will be champion again.
JML and Mikko will fight for 2nd and 3rd place.
Hyundai is not winner car of every rally, yet.
I´m happy if it turns otherway round!
The only reason Hirvonen got close to Loeb on a couple of occations in the championship fight, was because Loeb was cleaning the road at every rally in FIA's pathetic attempt to make the championship more exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
...and I simply cannot see another driver than Ogier winning the title in 2014.
Regarding Latvala, then several of us wronte him off many years ago. He's actually not that good. If he's fast he crashes .. when he doesn't crash, he's often not competetive.
maybe it is true but you do not know for sure the details. the M-Sport system may provide an advantage, they did not object the one used by Citroen in Wales...Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyRally
Exactly. I believe it's true there was an objection but I'm far from blaming anyone for it without knowing EXACTLY what's going on. It's sacred right of any team to appeal and it's up to FIA to decide whether such objection is soundly based.
You know engines? Gearboxes, suspension? You know what they did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys
or at 27 you believe you know something about something you read..
I said "I read somewhere......." and get a load of shite on the head.
You come along--a mere child in the context and say you read some stuff somewhere and think you KNOW..
Of course Hyundai and the other Korean manufacturers followed along the same path...we ALL know that, we who were around in the car world then..
Funny but you contemptuously make some snide comments about "40 year old opinions" or whatever, And then come and share something as obvious as the sky is blue :rolleyes: ...a commonplace to anybody who watched them come into the West.
Well John, I´ve experienced about the same as you about youngsters believing they know everything, (I´m soon 60 yrs old), but in this case I´d say the truth is somewhere in the midle of what you two guys saying.
As opposed to you, who starts levelling childish and rude attacks on a person's character the moment they question your wisdom. I'm happy to have a spirited debate on any subject, but I find it very disturbing that your first response is to try and discredit me simply because I disagreed with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
It's very arrogant of you to assume that you are the only one who knows anything, that nobody else is capable of finding out for themselves, and that any attempt to do so will immediately be compromised by the way it was not your experience.
I guess John has a view a bit broader in years than most of us. WRC isn´t just last ten or fifteen years, it´s much more than that. For us older chaps rallying began in the 50´s and 60´s.
Though I have to admit John wasn´t very polite having said what he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys
Actually, monkey you responded with a very stupid, very short sighted comments about which you, being a mere child of 27, knew not what I was referring to.
Don't be the typical forum-slut and pretend you are innocent and offended.
Yoourr first response was answered IN THE EXACT TONE IN WHICH YOU POSTED: PURE CONTEMPT..
I responded nicely to Mirek saying "misinformed, I agreed, and said detailed information on real things happening is hard to find..
But you, pffffft. Your crybaby comments are so typical..
Only reason I even look in here IS TO LEARN from those who are actually involved....and there are some,too
.
But too many fan-bois like you. :rolleyes:
old age is a terrible thing... you are forced to look back every day for all the things that "might have been" and all the lost dreams, hopes kick you in the head until you realise your underachieving reality... so show some sympathy and compassion for the granddads of this life.
Per, you don't jneed to admit anything, you're innocent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
But!
See directly above. I will respond to insults and snideness in the same tone as it is given...For some the entire point is to "win points".. Screw them. If this was a persons home and the monkey had said that, I'd say the same...
No, N.O.T. you´re misunderstood one thing. I´m old too. And looking back is seeing things that "happended" and try to learn something out from them. Like I said above when you´re older you´ve learned a lot more which you can relate to.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Thanks, John. We´ll have a beer somewhere sometime... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Actually my little acedemic failure I look back to lots of good adventures in three brances of motorsport...
Have you in your miserable little life in a hole ever done ONE motorsports event?
(This being a forum supposedly related to motorsport it should be 'the medium of exchange"---start a thread where you tell us about Your first International event you drove in...
You will never know what it is to be a "has been" because you are not even a "never was", not even a "village driver"..
Just being a wee bit curious..Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
How many people with relevant knowledge would be entitled an opinion on this forum, if the very first requirement is to have started an international event?
This place would certainly be waaaay more quiet than it already is, that's for sure.
To be fair, the people providing sound input here - I'd say very few of them actually are active in the 'vroom-vroom-turn-the-key'-branch of the sport. I'd much rather listen to a clever, well-informed journalist than some guy whose dad had money for 5 years and now lives on a forum!
And to finish of: No, I haven't done an international event personally, just a couple of nationals, so disregard all I've just said.. :laugh: