VW News 2012 & WRC 2013

I really hope with VW motorsport things will be more competitive and more exciting, I hope more FIA regulations that cut down the costs to attract more teams, and I really really hope more attention and publicity will come with Red Bull Media as promoter.

It is tough year for me, I always never had a favourite team or driver, I always support the WRC motorsport in general! But in general I am more compassionate with Finnish drivers, and I think I'll support VW and Mini (in hoping good results will lead them back as a manufacturer team)

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Originally Posted by spiderem

Lol. Being French, you would expect him to be arrogant isn't it?

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I don't know. I try not to generalise people based on national stereotypes.

It's better for Ogier to be realistic now, than to talk with big words and disappoint those who believed it after a few events... ;)

Jost Capito reckons the Polo R can compete for podiums during its maiden season. I think that's a fairly reasonable assessment, and may even be feasible in Monte Carlo, depending on who M-Sport take as their third driver. Barring any teething problems, I expect that Latvala and Ogier will be able to keep Hirvonen honest, since they're all fairly comparable in terms of raw talent.

I wonder if Volkswagen have any plans to make the Polo R available to customers. I can't imagine they would do it this year, but if the car is a hit, it could be a popular choice for privateers.

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

RSSP Rallysport Stockphoto - Bathmen, Netherlands - Service rédactionnel, Conception web - Photos | Facebook

Some more pics and detail pics (especially the suspension ones are interesting). Also 2 fuel tanks... :)

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What could be advantages of this construction of rear suspension :confused: . Interesting indeed, at least Fiesta don't have this kind, dunno for DS3.

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

I wonder if Volkswagen have any plans to make the Polo R available to customers. I can't imagine they would do it this year, but if the car is a hit, it could be a popular choice for privateers.

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According to regulations they must make it available.

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

What could be advantages of this construction of rear suspension :confused: . Interesting indeed, at least Fiesta don't have this kind, dunno for DS3.

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What do You mean? The angle of rear strut? The layout of Polo is same with Fabia S2000, just the angles in my opinion slightly differ but generally it is same with Fabia. Frankly I don't know what is exact impact of forward or backward inclination of rear strut but both have same main goal to prolong the damper travel. What comes to my mind is that with Polo/Fabia the damper and its mounting point mass is closer to the center of gravity. Maybe someone can tell us what is the impact on handling.

Quite nice pages. And some specs about Polo R WRC.

When was the last time, when there was some info about WRC car acceleration from manufacturer?

http://volkswagen-motorsport.com/index.php?id=339&L=1

Usually engine output data officially claimed are far from reality but this time it looks realistic in regard to what Ogier says.

The acceleration is same with Octavia WRC Evo II which was slightly heavier and had 320 Hp and 600 Nm so it also looks realistic.

What is interesting is that they show the suspension travel.

Thanks Mirek, it's interesting how much there is power in WRC cars. Does anyone know real output data from others WRC cars?

Fabia WRC at its best (CRT Kopecký 07) had 340 Hp @ 4500 rpm and 640 Nm @ 2700 rpm. Especially the torque was bad for 2007 when Ford was around 750 Nm if I have good information. I believe the latest 2 liter cars were close to 400 Hp and well over 800 Nm but except some talks with people I have no evidence for that.

For 1.6T cars I can only guess. If we take for real that Fiesta RRC has cca 275 Hp, than the WRC shall have 330 Hp based on restrictor area.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Fabia WRC at its best (CRT Kopecký 07) had 340 Hp @ 4500 rpm and 640 Nm @ 2700 rpm. Especially the torque was bad for 2007 when Ford was around 750 Nm if I have good information. I believe the latest 2 liter cars were close to 400 Hp and well over 800 Nm but except some talks with people I have no evidence for that.

For 1.6T cars I can only guess. If we take for real that Fiesta RRC has cca 275 Hp, than the WRC shall have 330 Hp based on restrictor area.

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1st spec Fiesta beginnig 2011 had 316hp and 570Nm. Late 2011 beginning 2012 the estimated increase in power has been around 5% and torque 7-10% don`t have exact figures though. The biggest improvement has been in the overall register which has improved alot. As the first spec Fiestas had quit a narrow "driving" range only on higher revs. Now it`sclearly noticable that they have a wide range from low revs up to 7000-7500rpm :s

Latest spec Focus had 346hp and 850Nm torque, the -03 Focus until the newer chassis actually had more power and less torque. Don`t know about Citroen though..

316 x 1,05 = 332. I feel good :p : :s mokin:

Wow. Lots of information. Thanks guys!

so they will produce the polo wrc street to 2500 units. Any info on prices and which country it will be available?

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Originally Posted by spiderem

so they will produce the polo wrc street to 2500 units. Any info on prices and which country it will be available?

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Available from Sept 2013 for 33900 EUR

It was impossible to find out for sure how many chassis of the Polo WRC have been built until now. Anyway the two cars which will be at the start of Monte Carlo are being built now and their shakedown is expected to be done around Christmas (a perfect gift!).

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Originally Posted by pucky54

Available from Sept 2013 for 33900 EUR

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Mirek

According to regulations they must make it available.

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Yeah, but if a potential customer showed up wanting to buy a Polo R, would Volkswagen be inclined to sell it? If I were VW, I'd be hesitant to start selling without first knowing how competitive the car actually is. It looks good, and there certainly doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it, but I for one would not be inclined to sell until I knew I had something worth selling - and that means doing a few rallies, not just 20,000km of testing (or however much they have done).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNm...ature=g-high-u

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YejsYgUHKY&feature=player_embedded

Where can we make offerings to see a Monte Carlo under this conditions?

Where can we make offerings to see a Monte Carlo under this conditions?

When I saw this photo

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...12436361_n.jpg

I instantly recalled this one

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...44611145_n.jpg

I wonder if the´ve done some small "crashtests", for example by letting the rear wheels touch the roadsides and all that can damage wheels, just for knowing which part brokes first. You might find failures which you can prevent happening in the future rallies...?

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I wonder if the´ve done some small "crashtests", for example by letting the rear wheels touch the roadsides and all that can damage wheels, just for knowing which part brokes first. You might find failures which you can prevent happening in the future rallies...?

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Jari has just few weeks with vw.Give him some time :p

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I wonder if the´ve done some small "crashtests", for example by letting the rear wheels touch the roadsides and all that can damage wheels, just for knowing which part brokes first. You might find failures which you can prevent happening in the future rallies...?

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I think they have done and will do for sure some testing but nowadays suspension geometries are quite boring and current simulation tools are quite clever in this kind of cases. Also individual component/subassembly design can also be reliably evaluated without full car. About all the cars are using same kind of simple suspension geometry, materials etc. so there is not room for very big (reliability) improvements to be made there in my opinion.

One old story.. Marcus has been telling several times that when he was at Peugeot he had a certain favourite jump in Finland that they used every year to test front struts before Finland and many times Marcus used the "opportunity" to find the limits and struts came trough the hood :) .

nice video from vw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iIr1_R7j71U#!

Latvala interview
eWRC.cz - Jari-Matti Latvala o Polu WRC, Ogierovi a sezon 2013

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Originally Posted by vkangas

I think they have done and will do for sure some testing but nowadays suspension geometries are quite boring and current simulation tools are quite clever in this kind of cases. Also individual component/subassembly design can also be reliably evaluated without full car. About all the cars are using same kind of simple suspension geometry, materials etc. so there is not room for very big (reliability) improvements to be made there in my opinion.

One old story.. Marcus has been telling several times that when he was at Peugeot he had a certain favourite jump in Finland that they used every year to test front struts before Finland and many times Marcus used the "opportunity" to find the limits and struts came trough the hood :) .

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You are fully right but still the reliability shall be verified in life conditions. You know the Murphy's law that whatever can fail, it fails? :D I know that from my job. If there is some little maybe, in the end it always happen :) I remember being said that when Škoda tested Fabia S2000 prior homologation they let the cars out on freeze, running them over motorways to testing locations etc. just to make every possible scenario to happen.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

You are fully right but still the reliability shall be verified in life conditions. You know the Murphy's law that whatever can fail, it fails? :D I know that from my job. If there is some little maybe, in the end it always happen :) I remember being said that when Škoda tested Fabia S2000 prior homologation they let the cars out on freeze, running them over motorways to testing locations etc. just to make every possible scenario to happen.

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Agree 100% Real life conditions are always the best way to test. Also in my job... :)

Sorry for OT, maybe the best job in the world (not mine unfortunately...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La03k7FzlZA

These VW lot aren't messing around are they. Everything they have put out there so far has been fantastic. Cant wait for Monte Carlo.

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Originally Posted by vkangas

Agree 100% Real life conditions are always the best way to test. Also in my job... :)

Sorry for OT, maybe the best job in the world (not mine unfortunately...)

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Old and cracked cooling pipes :confused:

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Originally Posted by vkangas

One old story.. Marcus has been telling several times that when he was at Peugeot he had a certain favourite jump in Finland that they used every year to test front struts before Finland and many times Marcus used the "opportunity" to find the limits and struts came trough the hood :) .

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As far as I remember that story, he tested there with Peugeot to see if the car holds together. Then, in 2006 for the first with Ford testing for NORF, he used the same road and same jump. Engineers were sure nothing would surface, but struts gave in. I think Marcus used a metaphor of saying "they were like chocolate" - which of course is not very encouraging. Soon satellite phones were installed on top of service truck and they opened a line to M-Sport HQ. In the rally, the car held together.

That said jump and piece of road is in Kaipolanvuori area in Jämsä, a renowned test stage. VW Motorsport used it in their second Finnish tests this Autumn.

In 1980' when Audi tested in secrecy in Czechoslovakia they also had a wicked jump in the test area near Zlín. Czech multi-champion Leo Pavlík who was driving many tests for them that time told a story when he was asked to be brutal to the car to see how it can resist harsh conditions. It was in 1985 and first time there with the S1. Leo said he usually jumped around 10 meters but this time he kept full... he flew 56 meters, top suspension mountings went through the bonnet, the engine mounts broke and that was the end of test day :D

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Originally Posted by Mirek

In 1980' when Audi tested in secrecy in Czechoslovakia they also had a wicked jump in the test area near Zlín. Czech multi-champion Leo Pavlík who was driving many tests for them that time told a story when he was asked to be brutal to the car to see how it can resist harsh conditions. It was in 1985 and first time there with the S1. Leo said he usually jumped around 10 meters but this time he kept full... he flew 56 meters, top suspension mountings went through the bonnet, the engine mounts broke and that was the end of test day :D

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Looks like the suspension strut mounts of S1 have been strong :D At least equal strong to engine mounts. Brave man.

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Originally Posted by Hartusvuori

As far as I remember that story, he tested there with Peugeot to see if the car holds together. Then, in 2006 for the first with Ford testing for NORF, he used the same road and same jump. Engineers were sure nothing would surface, but struts gave in. I think Marcus used a metaphor of saying "they were like chocolate" - which of course is not very encouraging. Soon satellite phones were installed on top of service truck and they opened a line to M-Sport HQ. In the rally, the car held together.

That said jump and piece of road is in Kaipolanvuori area in Jämsä, a renowned test stage. VW Motorsport used it in their second Finnish tests this Autumn.

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First attempt for 206wrc at Acropolis(white-blue livery) all had their struts through the bonnet.

Same problem was frequent cause of retirements of 207 S2000 during 2007 and 2008 seasons.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

In 1980' when Audi tested in secrecy in Czechoslovakia they also had a wicked jump in the test area near Zlín. Czech multi-champion Leo Pavlík who was driving many tests for them that time told a story when he was asked to be brutal to the car to see how it can resist harsh conditions. It was in 1985 and first time there with the S1. Leo said he usually jumped around 10 meters but this time he kept full... he flew 56 meters, top suspension mountings went through the bonnet, the engine mounts broke and that was the end of test day :D

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Even now, Audi do lots of pre season testing at Sebring - because of it's bumps and rough surface - it's the best testing and preparation for Le Mans.

From videos what I have seen so far Seb O seems to be much more comfortable and quicker than JML. Which is ofcourse natural as he has been playing with this car a lot.
But one thing is very noticeable that when there's no grip, Ogier backs off to get himself faster out from the corner while JML likes to push the car more through the corners which leaves him off from ideal line and is slow on the exit.

Dont give to much attention to last videos since they lately also testet diffs, springs and unusual tyre combinations.

Yes VW did some crash testing...

So testet VW ! - YouTube