The Ferrari thread !

Also, I think that the attitude of the Tifosi that it is the Scuderia, the cars, which are of more significance than the drivers, may help to understand the reason why there is a difference between them and fans of other teams when it comes to how drivers should be treated.

The opinion that a driver being subservient to a team is, I think, a concept which does not sit well with a tradition which does not have the same affection for a car as is the case with Ferrari and its supporters.

Perhaps if it is thought that with other teams a car is something to be driven, but with the Scuderia a driver drives for Ferrari, then the reason for the different approach can be understood?

Once a driver drives for Ferrari, there is no need to instruct and order this driver. He knows what his first responsibility is.

Unless he is called Rubens! Then, he sometimes needed to be told!

Why didn't Trulli ever race for Ferrari?

Must have been because Rubens made that last corner pass on Trulli a few years back!

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Nope, never been surfing, and the urge to let the head hair grow has evaded me......

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I've only surfed in a kayak , not that it wasn't more fun than a barrel of political monkeys .
And , haven't cut my hair since some time in 1974 .

There have been moments in F1 that have been very political , I think all here acted with quite proper decorum .

Background information , deemed political or not , is always good for a complete understanding of any situation .

As long as respect is given to the potential of the explosive , TNT can be very useful .

I know I understand the Tifosi mind a little better , and I think a few others do as well , thanks to this sometimes explosive thread .

My thanks to the thread starter .

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm not sure that is the case with every fan who is not a Ferrari supporter. I can appreciate the tifosi are very proud of their marque, and its certainly the most prestigious brand in grand prix racing, but there are fans like myself who have different dreams when it comes to teams in F1. Since I was a child I've dreamed of driving for Mclaren, and if you asked me which F1 car I would love to drive it would be the MP4/4. Williams is also a team I admired and maybe it is linked to a desire to drive for teams from my country, or the fact Ferrari were less than dominant in the 80's and 90's when I grew up? I don't know, but if I was an F1 driver I would class my career as complete if I got a drive with Mclaren. Ferrari would be nice, but it wouldn't be my top choice. Thats the diversity of F1 fans, and probably the reason why we enjoy the sport for a variety of reasons. :)

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But these teams, with respect, have not had the core support of the Scuderia. Maybe for you, individually, but overall? I do not believe so, or the people who cheered for Williams would not cheer for Mclaren now. Not if it was the same as being Tifoso.

What I try to explain is that, with Hamilton and Mansell and Hill, it did not matter to their supporters so much who they drove for, as the British tradition is to focus support on a driver and not a marque.

In Italy, this is the reverse.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Nope, never been surfing, and the urge to let the head hair grow has evaded me......

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:eek: And me thinking that in fact the hair evaded you head! :p

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

But these teams, with respect, have not had the core support of the Scuderia. Maybe for you, individually, but overall? I do not believe so, or the people who cheered for Williams would not cheer for Mclaren now. Not if it was the same as being Tifoso.

What I try to explain is that, with Hamilton and Mansell and Hill, it did not matter to their supporters so much who they drove for, as the British tradition is to focus support on a driver and not a marque.

In Italy, this is the reverse.

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This is mostly because you have to search hard to get a good Italian F1 driver in the last 30 years or even more.

What about Rossi, do Italians care who he rides for? I do not think so.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Why didn't Trulli ever race for Ferrari?

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Who?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Who?

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:D Point well taken.

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Originally Posted by ioan

This is mostly because you have to search hard to get a good Italian F1 driver in the last 30 years or even more.

What about Rossi, do Italians care who he rides for? I do not think so.

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But, for this argument not to be a case of apples and oranges, two fruit you like to speak about before, which Italian motorbike teams have been in MotoGP since 1950?

The answer is "Nessun"

There is no equivalent to Ferrari for Italian motorbike fans. Yes, Ducati are there now, but not always.

If there was an equivalent, then it would matter who Rossi rode for.

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Originally Posted by henners88

You could be right, but motor racing is big business in the UK and people here are just as passionate when watching the sport. Sure they don't adore one team over any other but thats because we've had a regular influx of British drivers over the past few decades just like ioan said. Where I live for example, 5 of the 12 teams are based within 30 miles and a further 2 within 60 miles. My local pub has references to F1 on the walls, much of it Schumacher in his Benetton days, I know its hard to believe Schuey was popular here once upon a time lol. Its just a different type of support. :)

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But it is more a driver-based support, no? The British did not stop cheering Mansell when he drove for Ferrari, for example.

An Italian beating Ferrari would not be cheered by the Monza crowd with the same feeling that the British gave to Mansell in a scarlet machine. It would not be received so well.

An example of how i understand this - I do not recall a sea of Williams or Mclaren flags at Silverstone or Brands Hatch. Plenty of Union Jacks, many with the drivers surname on them, but not specific team banners.

That is not the same as Monza or Imola with the huge Ferrari badge banners.

So, a question...

If Hamilton one day signs for Ferrari, how many Mclaren flags do you think would wave at Silverstone?

I am not convinced there is deep affection for Mclaren like that.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

But, for this argument not to be a case of apples and oranges, two fruit you like to speak about before, which Italian motorbike teams have been in MotoGP since 1950?

The answer is "Nessun"

There is no equivalent to Ferrari for Italian motorbike fans. Yes, Ducati are there now, but not always.

If there was an equivalent, then it would matter who Rossi rode for.

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You mean Ducati are no one?!
They were in motorbike sports in one series or another for quite a few decades already.

pino, what is the most important objective of the Tifosi? Ferrari, or an Italian driver (say in another car?)
I suspect that any driver in a Ferrari, like Alonso say, is more important than say someone like Fisi winning a race in a Force India.
Could you please adjudicate this for me. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

pino, what is the most important objective of the Tifosi? Ferrari, or an Italian driver (say in another car?)
I suspect that any driver in a Ferrari, like Alonso say, is more important than say someone like Fisi winning a race in a Force India.
Could you please adjudicate this for me. Thanks.

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Ferrari is above everything and everyone ;)

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Originally Posted by pino

Ferrari is above everything and everyone ;)

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Well who in their right mind would ever question that ???

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Originally Posted by ioan

:eek: And me thinking that in fact the hair evaded you head! :p

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:laugh: ! Fortunately, I come from a long line of 'non baldy' males. ;)

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

But it is more a driver-based support, no? The British did not stop cheering Mansell when he drove for Ferrari, for example.

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You may well have hit the nail on the head there.

No-one supports Button less because he no longer drives for BAR/Honda/Brawn, or WIlliams for that matter.

I understand very clearly now the ethos behind the Tifosi support for the Scuderia.

Why give a flying fornication who is driving, so long as they are winning and bringing home titles?

is this not more about Ferrrai being THE italian team, whilst there have been a few minnows come and go there has only ever really been 1 Italian team (unless you go right back to the days of Alfa and Maserati), whereas in the UK we have had multiple teams to choose from.

If there was only McLaren or Williams (or Jordan, Red Bull/Jaguar/Stewart, Lotus (old and new) Tyrell, BRM etc etc then maybe the British support would sit behind the one team, but by the nature of the F1 industry in the UK there are multiple options, all with varying levels of success in recent history - for Italy there has only really been Ferrari for a very long time.

hence the british support is more diluted, and also more fickle as it easy to follow several teams but retain the passion for individual drivers (who obviously come and go)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86109

this is getting ridiculous. It seems they are not able to enforce their own rules. Why not ban both teams just to be sure?

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Originally Posted by eu

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86109

this is getting ridiculous. It seems they are not able to enforce their own rules. Why not ban both teams just to be sure?

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Surely they are merely attempting to ensure there is a level playing field.

Are flexible floors allowed?

"These are the rules and this is how we are going enforce them... do the best you can. Good luck and see you next year". That's the fair way. All of them know from the start what the standards are and the most clever wins... as he should do.

This would be great especially in issues like flexible devices. Since everything flexes more or less... the only standards you have are those tests. Who would design their cars to pass tougher tests just to be sure?

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Originally Posted by eu

"These are the rules and this is how we are going enforce them... do the best you can. Good luck and see you next year". That's the fair way. All of them know from the start what the standards are and the most clever wins... as he should do.

This would be great especially in issues like flexible devices. Since everything flexes more or less... the only standards you have are those tests. Who would design their cars to pass tougher tests just to be sure?

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You nailed it.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

So, a question...

If Hamilton one day signs for Ferrari, how many Mclaren flags do you think would wave at Silverstone?

I am not convinced there is deep affection for Mclaren like that.

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It's an interesting question. I suspect that when, for example, Mansell moved from Williams to Ferrari his fans followed him, but did not necessarily become Ferrari fans. They were Mansell fans first and foremost so they wore and waved the colours of the team he was with at the time. I would think that much the same would happen if Hamilton ever drives for Ferrari.

I agree that there is not such a deep affection for McLaren among fans as there is for Ferrari, although through the James Hunt and John Watson years there is a strong link to the team among British fans. However, I think there probably is a stronger affection for Williams. If anything Williams are closer to Ferrari in terms of strength of support, but the Tifosi's devotion is something different.

Now ferrari and their drivers need a miracle. fernando is a very inseure man deep inside it seems.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

Now ferrari and their drivers need a miracle. fernando is a very inseure man deep inside it seems.

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Overrated = Alonso

2007 was the year when Alonso confidence was broken.
He always asked for weak team mates and he thought that 2007 will be a stroll in the park alongside a rookie driver, and he got beaten.
Since then he over drove the car and needed team orders, rigged races or the leader's car breaking down in order to win.
He is by far the most overrated F1 driver in the last decade.

If Lewis wins this season's titles he will further rattle this cry baby's confidence.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Overrated = Alonso

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Not to mention overpaid!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Not to mention overpaid!

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If only this was the weekend of the British GP, then I could add;

"....and over here"!!! :laugh:

Alonso's 2006 season was brilliant - too bad none of his seasons since have really come close.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Alonso's 2006 season was brilliant - too bad none of his seasons since have really come close.

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I think we will see Alonso on top again. He's an exceptional driver and in my opinion, on a par with Hamilton.

I think that Hamilton or Alonso in a Red Bull would have made this a pretty boring year with the championship already sewn up.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Alonso's 2006 season was brilliant - too bad none of his seasons since have really come close.

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Can you say Michelin?!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Can you say Michelin?!

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Not after a few shandies! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Can you say Michelin?!

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Ok, and for Michael's wins at Ferrari, can you say Bridgestone?

Every succesful driver has had an advantage to achieve his success.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Ok, and for Michael's wins at Ferrari, can you say Bridgestone?

Every succesful driver has had an advantage to achieve his success.

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MS also won with Goodyear! Even championships! :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

MS also won with Goodyear! Even championships! :D

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No championships on Goodyear with Ferrari.

To do this, even the greatest driver needed an advantage.

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Originally Posted by skc

I think we will see Alonso on top again. He's an exceptional driver and in my opinion, on a par with Hamilton.

I think that Hamilton or Alonso in a Red Bull would have made this a pretty boring year with the championship already sewn up.

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion but why do you think Alonso is on par with Hamilton when Hamilton had the measure of him in his rookie year?

IMO A good question would be whether Alonso is doing worse at Ferrari than Räikkönen was? So far, the answer would appear to be yes.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Ok, and for Michael's wins at Ferrari, can you say Bridgestone?

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Bespoke to the Ferrari I might add?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Bespoke to the Ferrari I might add?

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Yes, without doubt, although given the legend of Ferrari that is not a great surprise.

If you think Bridgestone were keen to favour Ferrari for marketing reasons, which I believe they did, as did Michelin with Renault, then you can expect Pirelli to be even more keen.

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Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

No championships on Goodyear with Ferrari.

To do this, even the greatest driver needed an advantage.

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No ****?!
We will now start picking only the years and teams that suit your POV?

What did Alonso manage outside of Renault? Bugger all!
What did MS without Ferrari? 2 WDC titles!

Spot the difference?

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Originally Posted by ioan

No ****?!
We will now start picking only the years and teams that suit your POV?

What did Alonso manage outside of Renault? Bugger all!
What did MS without Ferrari? 2 WDC titles!

Spot the difference?

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Every time I read a post of yours about Ferrari since your sudden 'conversion', it astonishes me, and not in a good way. What more can I say? The comment I've quoted above is exactly the sort of thing you would (rightly) have castigated as being nonsense a year or two ago.