2012 Australian Grand Prix Thread - Official

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Maybe he used to be a journeyman in your eyes, but not those of many others by whose views on such things I would set rather more store.

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You know it well that I only believe what I see, and back in 2008 Jenson was nothing but a journey man.

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Originally Posted by wedge

I think you'll find that in previous races Button isn't particularly happy at finishing behind Hamilton.

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No one would be happy to be beaten, but jenson doesn't crumble under defeat and he doesn't lose his composure. Lewis does get lost though.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Give Jenson a 'poor' car let alone dog of a car he leaves a lot to be desired.

In the second half of 2009 Rubens was the better driver in that situation of getting the best out of tyres when BGP lost their superiority, nor could he reach the 2010 season finale as McLaren were faltering.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Yet he's a journeyman in ioans opinion :laugh:

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Man, you'll never make teh difference between was a journey man and is a journey man. Might be because of the extremely 'difficult' English grammar! :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

Man, you'll never make teh difference between was a journey man and is a journey man. Might be because of the extremely 'difficult' English grammar! :D

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It must be something to do with the English language but in my opinion, a Journeyman Driver will always be just that. You can't polish a turd.

Perhaps you fail to see what's in front of your eyes ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

You can't polish a turd.

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You can, actually. ;)

Mythbusters Polishing a Turd

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Originally Posted by jens

Garry Walker, if you say that Red Bull has the best car, then McLaren had the best car last year. :p : Because this year their car characteristics seem reversed. McLaren is quick straightaway and builds a gap after starts to get out of a DRS-zone. Red Bull is struggling with tyre heating and start challenging only at the end of stints. Button had a race like Vettel used to have last year - controlling from the front. Vettel had a race like Button used to have last year - challenging upwards after poor initial position.

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No, not at all. Bieber had an awful qualifying and Webber didn't have KERS. So that cost RB a lot of time in quali.
As for the race, well, you want to know if Red Bull was faster than McLaren or not? Well, when MS retired and Bieberl had clear road in the first stint, he closed up by 2,5 seconds in 5 laps compared to Button. Yeah, sure, McLaren was much faster. In the following stints, there was nothing to suggest McLaren was faster than Red Bull.
Christian Horner - 'McLaren didn't win, Red Bull lost' | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video

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And although Red Bull had a better Sunday than they did Saturday, finishing second and fourth in the race as opposed to fifth and sixth in qualifying, Horner is adamant his outfit is actually faster than McLaren.

"It was a good recovery and we had good pace in the race," said the Red Bull team boss.

"We were right on same pace as the McLarens and could have been faster.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I could do without some of the outright nastiness.

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Yeah, I could do without people telling others they are liars or need shrinks as well, but what can you do, every forum has its bitter losers.

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Originally Posted by ioan

After beating Mr. '6 tenths' in his rookie year he is constantly overshadowed by a guy who used to be a journey man, he sure didn't expect it. Heck I didn't expect it either.
But the biggest issue is that Lewis has troubles digesting this situation.

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I think Button was nothing special, but the last few years he has clearly improved. The Button of 2005 was not a top driver, the Button of 2012 clearly is.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Maybe he used to be a journeyman in your eyes, but not those of many others by whose views on such things I would set rather more store.

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I think pretty much everyone regarded him as a journeyman back in 2005 for example. But he has raised his level, perhaps much due to the new tyres.

I think many of the people 'in the know' inside F1 always new Button was a talented driver. Even back in 2005.

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Gil De Ferran: '“It became apparent to me very quickly that Jenson’s skill was at a very high level looking at his data traces. There was never any exaggeration in his throttle, brake or steering, everything was done the precise amount. He would never over do it and come back, It indicated tremendous amount of feel, I think a driver that has the level of feel and sensitivity in his hands and feet that Jenson has, is able to drive at a very high limit without ever making mistakes or overstepping the mark.”

“I remember looking at his data after qualifying (for 2005British GP) and thinking, ‘Jesus, Christ!’ He had basically judged every corner to absolute perfection. That’s something the public doesn’t see; the tiny adjustments he made to find a whole new limit was very impressive to me. It was perfect – there was not one correction too many. It was all done with surgical precision; the throttle, brake and steering were all just perfect

“I can’t tell you how hard it is to go that fast and be smooth. The public likes the guy with the tail out but in my opinion, being on the limit without those moves, demonstrates a higher degree of skill.

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On Jenson Button

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It must be something to do with the English language but in my opinion, a Journeyman Driver will always be just that. You can't polish a turd.

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Alonso is doing it now in Ferrari, did too when he returned to Renault

Hamilton did it in 2009

Schumi did it for Ferrari in 1996

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I think many of the people 'in the know' inside F1 always new Button was a talented driver. Even back in 2005.

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2005 San Marino GP Button easily let Schumi past, Alonso held Schumi off for the last 10 laps and ended up winning.

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Originally Posted by wedge

2005 San Marino GP Button easily let Schumi past, Alonso held Schumi off for the last 10 laps and ended up winning.

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That was some overtaking move, I wouldnt take it from button, but rather give to Schumy for pulling that off.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It must be something to do with the English language but in my opinion, a Journeyman Driver will always be just that. You can't polish a turd.

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Yes I think this is just some misunderstanding coming from subtle interpretations of the language. I agree the word journeyman implies consistent mediocrity over a career. If a driver shows excellence now that he didn't in the past, then he was more like a diamond in the rough back then.