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So your position is, run up the debt as much as we can?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
A small amount of national debt is actually desirable as it spurs bond sales, and a few other things that keep the economy chugging along. However, too much has the oposite effect as countires start to wonder if we'll ever pay off the bonds they have bought. See China's current reluctance to buy more of our debt.
It's been US National Policy without cease now for 220 years. Why should it suddenly change? Besides which, in the current economic client where "stimulus" seems to be the buzz word, wouldn't it be more useful to actually set up a system for the betterment of the people than continually going to war?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
You honestly think that it has gone up without cease?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
You honestly think that's a good idea?
You honestly think that whatever system they come up with will only be for the betterment of the people?
I have a feeling that you are trying to make some sort of statement about our foreign policy, but you've for some reason decided to do it in a healthcare debate. If you want to discuss our foreign policy stances, fine, but go start another thread.
Oh yeah, and stimulus may be a buzz word, but it ain't my word.
What I don't get is why you are worrying about it. We can't stop meth, we can't stop crack, we can't protect our borders, we can't stop the influx of H1 visas because none of our people want to get educated. So health care you say. Just print the money and move on. We are fu____ed and fu____ed good because our young don't want to get off their asses because everything has been handed to them. You Euro's are just on one permanent Holiday selling us sh!t because we are too dumb to buy our own products.
ummm Revolutionary War? Valid because George III was a loon and the USA came out of it. They would pay for it again I am sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Civil war? Necessary I suppose.
WW1? Ummm didn't they save the world from another 4 years of stalemated warfare? Didn't the Allies practically BEG Wilson to bring the USA in? After, the USA went back to ignoring the world
WW2? Again, don't want to blow their horn, but I suspect you would be speaking German today Rollo if the Yank's stayed home. Or Russian...
The Cold War? Maybe spent to much there but you don't play around in a competition you must win like a war.
So they are paying debts off from their miltary? Great...they also financed the rebuilding of Europe after WW2. Marshall Plan was not cheap man...
So the Americans have a great capacity to absorb debt, create wealth and generate money. So much so, that you think they shouldn't sweat the debt of a national health plan. What you conveniently forget is the USA's economics are NOT what they were in 1946. They have a lot more debt already, they have way more gov't meddling in the system, which has actually hurt the growth of economic activity. They are also paying more tax than they liked before, and most Americans have much more personal debt AND are more scared of losing their jobs than ever, mainly because the world has changed and it doesn't pay to make household products in the USA with workers making 20 bucks an hour when they can find Chinese or Indians to do it for a buck an hour.
The USA cannot afford to have a national health plan like the NHS or Canada's provincial plans. It has too many people who would need to be compensated or absorbed into the system, it would require massive tort reform and it would need to address the needs of the 80% of the population who have a health plan and are happy with it.
This is like putting your dog down because you don't like the fact he pants.....extreme measure for a system that needs tinkering...
Obama isn't a tinkerer apparently...
Sorry to dig up this old thread. But I thought this was interesting.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091025/D9BI4D6O1.html
"Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two"
"Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure"
"HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, posted 5.4 percent. That's a less profitable margin than was achieved by the makers of Tupperware, Clorox bleach and Molson and Coors beers."
So the big argument I keep hearing is all about how if we cut out these "obsene/immoral profits" by going to a government run system (after all the government doesn't need to make a profit) that the costs of healthcare will fall dramatically. Is 2-6% really a dramatic cut? And do you really think that costs will fall that much in a government run system?
The official excuse was outrage over a few piddling taxes which had been levied by Parliament which were set to expire but were made to seem an outrage because they were levied in London without the Colonists voting for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
So rather than everybody pay a farthing or a penny on a stamp on a document, and a bit less profit for Boston merchants, they whole of th 13 colonies aqquire millions in debt to fight the War---and of course would have never succeeded without millions more in grants, 20-40,000 troops, dozens of ships and the intervention just in the nick of time of the entire French fleet.
"because Geo III was a loon" a tiny bit simplistic...
Impossible to say if it would have been better to get rid of the feudal savages who still abosrd the greatest portion of direct government money, and is such a cesspool of out of wedlock births, teen pregnancies, drug use, murder, welfare, corporate and political criminality all crowned by endless loud hilarious screaming about morals and GAWD!Quote:
Civil war? Necessary I suppose.
No. Germany was on edge of political collapse, Austria-Hungary worse, Turkey was collapsing.Quote:
WW1? Ummm didn't they save the world from another 4 years of stalemated warfare?
After, the USA went back to ignoring the world.Quote:
Didn't the Allies practically BEG Wilson to bring the USA in?
Germany collapsed politically---do you never read?
The country was bled white and starving and that was intolerable.
The Government collapsed, the new Government immediately opened negotiations for an ARMISTICE.
Post war archives showed that Germany, France and Britain ALL wanted desparately to have decision in 1918 as they ALL said "before the numbers of American troops become a significant enough factor they equal place at Treat negotiation would have to be granted to the Americans".
READ!
Poles right next door spoke and still speak Polish, Hungarians spoke and still speak Hungarian, Bulgarians, Czechs, Slovaks, even the Germans spoke the same language....shall we list the languages spoken all along within the old Soviet Union's borders.Quote:
WW2? Again, don't want to blow their horn, but I suspect you would be speaking German today Rollo if the Yank's stayed home. Or Russian...
American production, especially in shipping and aircraft was amazing but don't exaggerate the significance especially to Soviet Union which had essentially single-handedly stopped the Germans by Dec 41, and in the end, killed about 88% of all those horrible Germans killed in the whole war.
Silly groundless exaggeration disrespects the memory of all who fought side by side and is particularly shameful for one who was never NEAR the action to be lying for other people's benefit.
Corporate welfare for "Defense" contractors and it was so obvious to anybody around back then that a sitting US President and former 5 star general made a point to WARN the American people of the out of control threat to their lives and World Peace. It only got worse after Eisenhower's Farewell speech.Quote:
The Cold War? Maybe spent to much there but you don't play around in a competition you must win like a war.
GASP!!! Government intervention!!!! No wonder all of Eurpoe went Socialist!!Quote:
So they are paying debts off from their miltary? Great...they also financed the rebuilding of half of Europe that wasn't nearly blow to dust and gravel as the other half after WW2. Marshall Plan was not cheap man...
Wrong, less.Quote:
They have a lot more debt already, they have way more gov't meddling in the system,
Read history, turn off Rush and his buddies.
FalseQuote:
which has actually hurt the growth of economic activity.
Some are paying mere fractions of what was ON PAPER before, the middle end of the middle class and lower pay more.Quote:
They are also paying more tax than they liked before,
Dare you suggest that people shouild just do whatever they want with their money or credit cards?Quote:
and most Americans have much more personal debt
You dare suggest that everybody doesn't need 64" TVs, cell phone/twitter/Blackberry/NEW 380 bhp 3 ton SUVs and 1000 sq meter houses?
I always knew you Canadians were Communist Nazis......
Everybody else can, countries not nearly as wealthy but American CAN'T.Quote:
The USA cannot afford to have a national health plan like the NHS or Canada's provincial plans.
Lower total tax burden, lower housing and fuel costs, lower food costs, lower car costs, higher wages, total health car costs TWICE the average of the rest of the civilised world for less people cover, but you're RIGHT!!!!
America can't afford to pay less!!!!
What a bizarre world view....
Ok JanVan we are here on the eve of the pelosi program.
So lets nationalize petroleum and electricity to pay for this.
What is your take
And I really don't give a F___ what hitler paid for gas
Fousto...Javvan is the expert on lots..just ask him.
On the things I bother to take issue with, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
It IS within the realm of human experience that a great many people my be significantly better read than you, and possibly have a BROADER viewpoint than your patently rah! Rah! America's No.1 line that you tirelessly and constantly push.
I have, after all, been listening to people tell a similar simplistic stories about US History for 50+ years, and oddly, the stories keep getting simpler and simpler and simpler which is odd now that we speak to a world wide readership now and info is so much easier to find. It would seem that one may have re-thought some of the simple " 'merica best, everybody else sucks" stories which are now the essential story behind all stories here.
You lot NEVER respond to a single point EVER, never engage in any give and take and you 'turn around' things and act as if you are the victims of some unprovoked 'attack' when all you are getting is exactly what you give.
Why are you surprised when somebody presents a strong opinion----and backs it up with references to things well known?
By the way, you and Footsie and Chuckies totally disregarding and brushing aside any and all opinions differing from your truly odd and slanted views is one is the reasons why the public became fed up with the previous Administration and the corrupt gang of crooks infesting the Republican Party.
Notice the last election results?
That's what happens when people think of clowns who dismiss all discourse and only fire dud broadsides.
That's why I asked the delicate Foutinitio who he was presuming to speak for when he said "WE"..
Simple question really, too bad he can't answer it.