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Well Autosport has this nice report about the latest development of the affair, and it seems that Ferrari asked the court to allow them to show Coughlan's affidavit to the FIA. If that is the case than maybe the names contained in that document were enough for the FIA to take action against McLaren as a team.
BTW it seems that these documents were in Mike's possession since March, not end of April. That's some interesting news!
Here's the link:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60737
Hmm.. so it's gone up to 780 pages now. And what about this gem?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
"And should it be proved that he had knowledge of the Ferrari F2007, including what the FIA has said is: "information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car', then that could have very important implications on the case."
Really?, design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari. All with 780 pages of documentation?. Not likely, the Haynes manual for my VW Golf must have close to 300 pages and that doesn't include any software source code. Looks like a conspiracy to me.
If I may put my lawyer's hat on for a moment here: the FIA is merely investigating whether McLaren has violated Article 151 (c) of the International Sporting Regulations, which holds illegal
"[a]ny fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally."
The FIA knows that McLaren obtained Ferrari's confidential document. They absolutely have to investigate whether this constituted an act prejudicial to the interests of competiton or to motor sport generally. If they failed to investigate, they would rightly be accused of protecting not the sport, but McLaren instead.
Far more significant from today's developments, as I read them, is the revelation that Ron Dennis "can categorically state that there are no developments, whatsoever, that have occurred in the months preceding 28th April or the months following 28th April" in the McLaren car which could possibly be traced to Ferrari's drawings. Why is this significant? Because there has been huge speculation, raised most recently at the High Court by Ferrari's lawyers, as to when McLaren first learned that Coughlan had the Ferrari drawings. They were copied, it is agreed, on or about 2nd or 3rd of May, 2007. McLaren have previously said that Neale learned of their possession by Coughlan in late April, but others have speculated as to how long McLaren knew about the Coughlan possession before admitting it? Now we know McLaren's position on that all-important question of "When did they know?".
Dennis will, of course, have discussed this point at length with all relevant employees and with McLaren's lawyers: it seems they have arrived at a position, which they will have to maintain throughout these proceedings, that McLaren (other than Coughlan) first knew that the Ferrari drawings had fallen into McLaren's hands on, neither before nor after, 28th April, 2007.
How does this square with the assertion that they told Ferrari within one hour that they had Ferrari's drawings? How does this square with the claim by some Ferrari people that the first time Ferrari knew that their drawings had been improperly dislcosed was when they were contacted by a copy-shop employee in early May?
But they didn't investigate Toyota over their purchasing of Ferrari data did they? Bit inconsistent if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannex
As for the copying, some rumours have it that the papers were A0 and therefore not the sort that could be copied on any old machine, but then that raises the question... what the hell was on them coz I've never seen an A0 sized operations manual and you'd have thought any serious designing would be kept on an HDD....
;) McLaren-Gate... maybe more expensive than a 2 bit burglary...
780 pages @ 50 cent/page copying Ferrari's blueprints.
:dozey: Other than the two (or more) individuals directly involved... look for Mad Max & Bernie to organize a "Cover-Up" !!!
I don't think the FIA wants to disqualify McLaren !!! Think of the impact on both the constructors & drivers championships.
Didn't investigate? Tell that to Angelo Santini and Mauro Iacconi, the former Ferrari employees sent to prison for having betrayed Ferrari's secrets to Toyota. I don't know whether they're out yet, but I do know that they'd tell you the Toyota affair was very thoroughly investigated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
This affair is not much different. The important question is the same: how much were the receiving team to blame, or instrumental in the obtaining of their competitor's secrets? And did they make use of them? So far, McLaren are looking pretty good, I'd say. I think (and hope) that in a year or two McLaren will be in the position of Toyota, obviously innocent victims of rambunctious employees who were properly, quickly fired.
I think there are several issues involved here:
1. The possession/taking of documents, illegally obtained
2. The passing of such documents to a second party who then copied these documents
3. The use or non use of these documents by Ferrari's competitors for the design and modifcation of their cars.
In case 1., I do remember wherever I worked in any capacity as an engineer, I always had to sign an undertaking as a condition of employment that any designs, inventions etc that I may have made during such employ remains the property of the Employer and cannot be sold or given to a third party without hte prior consent of the Employer. Even Government organisations have such a policy. Now this is merely a legal condition, the breaking of which becomes a breaking of the law and may be pursued by the police.
2. above is simply an illegal act, which can be pursued by hte police.
3. Is something different, because if such information was used for hte design of components of a competitir's car, the FIA can act because it contravenes/violates and article of the FIA's international Sporting Regulations and the team which contravenes can be subject to FIA punishment/sanctions.
Having said all this, 3. is difficult to prove unless it is very blatant, and the FIA/Bernie/Max etc would be very reluctant to act if it in any way affects the popularity and/or competitiveness of the competition to the extent where it will affect viewer ratings on TV or on track attendances. It was for this very reason that SchM was not penalised or suspended after the Jerez incident because any bans the following year may have seriously affected the F1 competition and viewing numbers the following year after Jacques won his WDC.
Now I await, breathlessly, the next chapter of this sorry saga which I now name as Trudygate.
From what I've read (sorry, no link since it's all a blur to me where I've seen what) the original data was on two discs (CDROM, DVD-ROM, or whatever.) Either Coughlan printed the manual out and then sent his wife to have the paper document copied, or he sent her with the discs to have them printed.Quote:
Originally Posted by icsunonove
It may be that he thought it would look less suspicious having an ordinary housewife doing some copying that to risk being recognized as a McLaren employee copying a Ferrari manual?
So counting the original discs, he either had 2 or 3 copies of the 780 pages. The big question that brings me to is why did he need to copy it and who were the extra copies for?
Hopefully we'll get more facts to answer some of the questions and end some of the speculation.
As far as the FIA inquiry of McLaren goes, I doubt Bernie would let the McLaren drivers be disqualified, but can you imagine the amount of press that would generate? Perhaps he sees this as a way to increase his wealth by increasing the worldwide recognition of F1?
It is, and I'm sure more will emerge as time goes on. However we still don't have an answer to the question - who sent the documents to Coughlan and why?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The whole thing is beginning to remind me of the shenanigans that went on between McLaren and Ferrari during the 1976 season. Whatever the outcome, what was shaping up to be a fantastic season will now be overshadowed by all of this.
If that were only the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannex
the FIA have formally charged McLaren over this and as I understand it, Ron is hopping mad and ready to take the FIA head on. He's very dissapointed that the FIA have charged McLaren and feels that this is some sort of witch hunt.
all I can make out of this is that perhaps someone hasn't told Ron the truth as to their involvement in this fiasco and the afadavit reveals something that might incriminate McLaren without Rons knowledge.
this would be a disaster and I cant help feel that Ron has not been given the full facts. The FIA and Ferrari should give Ron the evidence they have if it looks like McLaren have a case to answer otherwise what grounds have the FIA in charging McLaren.
this is beginning to look like Ron is being sold up the river otherwise I cannot see any justification for these charges.