People Power

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Who said anything about imposing? I believe that not following the herd is a positive trait and should be encouraged, but if you wish for everything to be subsumed into a soulless corporate morass, so be it. Don't be surprised if not everyone is over-enthusiastic, and if it results in some protest.

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You still seem to have trouble with what I am saying. I've said it at least 3 times now. Here it is again for you.

If you personally do not like what the chain stores on the high street have to offer, you do not have to buy what they are selling. There are plenty of other places you can obtain what you are seeking. Obviously there are many many people who do want to buy from those chain stores. Who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Ah, so corporate blandness will lead to protests? That must be why there are so many Apple products down at OWS. :D

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Forgive me for addressing Arrows, and asking him why giving corporations freedom scares him. I didn't realise that was "off limits".

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I didn't realise I was in any way suggesting it was.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

OH YEAH, well the IRS always like you best!

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????? What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I didn't realise I was in any way suggesting it was.

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Sigh.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

You still seem to have trouble with what I am saying. I've said it at least 3 times now. Here it is again for you.

If you personally do not like what the chain stores on the high street have to offer, you do not have to buy what they are selling. There are plenty of other places you can obtain what you are seeking. Obviously there are many many people who do want to buy from those chain stores. Who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Ah, so corporate blandness will lead to protests? That must be why there are so many Apple products down at OWS. :D

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Of course I have trouble with it, because you seem unwilling to understand that, increasingly, there are not so many other places where one can obtain what one seeks — a natural consequence of the march of 'corporatisation'.

As for your last point, maybe one should ask why Apple is a company not viewed with the same venom as much of the corporate world.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Forgive me for addressing Arrows, and asking him why giving corporations freedom scares him. I didn't realise that was "off limits".

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Why does giving government freedom scare you then?
Somewhere in this discussion is the question of governance and power.

I find it a little strange that you object to government having a degree of governance and power when government can and should be held accountable because the executives of government are elected officials.
Whereas you have no problem at all when governance and power sits with largely unelected officials (in the context of broad society) making decisions in the corporate world.

The decisions of Wall St have far more of a degree of actual influence on people's livelihoods. How much responsibility should be laid at Wall St for the global financial crisis, and/or when the decision is taken to shift production plants to different cities or countries, the corporate world takes no responsibility whatsoever for the people's lives that its just ruined.
All praise the corporate world, give them freedom. Yet at the same time restrain governments?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Oh boo hoo some jerk "just clicks a screen all day, and makes more than me". It's just not fair, sombody give me what he's got. What is stopping you from doing exactly what that guy is doing? And yes I do know a couple of traders, one in Chicago and two in Toronto.

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Oh I could do the same job, I'm perfectly aware of that thanks.

You missed my point though or I suspect you did get it but refused to answer.

The fact is that the financial sector is disproportionately well paid to the extent that it skews local and national economies. In your country and mine it is now state subsidised and partially state owned at great cost to the entire population. Yet it still carries on behaving the way it did with impunity in the way that got it into great trouble in the first place.

Do you not think that major reform of the financial sector is necessary to make it more accountable, and to reduce the impact it has on the economy when it goes wrong due to mismanagement?

Your debate with others on whether the free market is a good thing is missing the point IMO.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I find it a little strange that you object to government having a degree of governance and power when government can and should be held accountable because the executives of government are elected officials.
Whereas you have no problem at all when governance and power sits with largely unelected officials (in the context of broad society) making decisions in the corporate world.

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A degree of governance and power that, no matter what those with a benevolent view of the free market may claim, is not vested in the hands of consumers. The behaviour of News International, to name but one example, proves that.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Oh boo hoo some jerk "just clicks a screen all day, and makes more than me". It's just not fair, sombody give me what he's got. What is stopping you from doing exactly what that guy is doing?

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Not being a money-obsessed ****?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Why does freedom scare you?

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I'll repeat the context in which I used the word freedom. Giving private enterprise the freedom to create wealth is the way out of this "mess" apparently but excuse me if that doesn't fill me with confidence.

Why doesn't that fill me with confidence? Because private enterprise, as represented by the financial services sector, has illustrated a level of incompetence that we are paying for, some more than others.