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25th May 2018, 14:31
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWorm

They also told Breen and Lefebvre to take more risks at the end of last season.

This was before Australia. Ended up with all 3 crashing.
25th May 2018, 14:33
Rally Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

It was nice David Evans made the effort and gave us what Budar had to say, but this fanboy-like ending was somewhat unnecessary.

Despite that final remark, the piece is probably more objective than anything Evans has previously wrote on Meeke; considering the moment, he deserves to be praised for that.

Nothing much to say on Budar words; the guy is mostly right and for sure it wasn’t easy for him to take this decision.
25th May 2018, 14:36
N.O.T

the main reason shitroen are getting all this is because of the timing not because of the decision, Meeke always was like that since his c2 days, they thought he was going to change his approach in his mid 30s ? When you have a driver like that you either wait to let him go at the end of the season or you do not start with him in the first place.

Another thing is the way that the announcement was made, they totally blamed everything on him like he was some dog full of fleas that they had to put down... you do not treat your driver that handed your ONLY wins with that crap car like that...

good riddance tot hat sorry excuse of a team at the end of the season.
25th May 2018, 14:46
shaitan

Matton have done a really stupid thing to bring meeke in.

When we look back several years there are no place for meeke anymore and meeke never change his approach but crash or win.

Citroen have done stupid thing since 2012 when they kick off Ogier to remain Seb.

Dump meeke is the same thing happened for Seb in his last WTCC season but why British fan boy can not complain more in that time?
25th May 2018, 14:55
the sniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaitan

Dump meeke is the same thing happened for Seb in his last WTCC season but why British fan boy can not complain more in that time?

Are you kidding? Who gave a damn about the WTCC at that time? Not even touring car fans cared much about the going on's in the WTCC by then, let alone British rally fans... :rolleyes:
25th May 2018, 15:23
Norm75

In both cases, Meeke and the touring car Loeb episode, just shows the psa group to be as inconsistent as the handling of the c3.
Yes, I'm a Brit and yes I'm a meeke fan. To be honest, I thought his days in shitroen were probably numbered at the end of the season, unless he had a run of good results.

He has had more than his share of bad luck, usually when fighting for the win or podium position. I think frustration has always got the better of him, which is why we see the crashes in the lower positions on the leaderboard.
Given the way the team has been run, I think any driver in his position would feel added pressure, only running two cars on certain events, possibility of being dropped willy nilly, results led decision on remaining in the championship next year etc.

As for Kris being top three fastest drivers, I believe given the right tools it's certainly a possibility. 2016 was probably the only year where he had no pressure, in a car that development had stopped, was really the only serious challenger to Ogier, winning rallies and taken out of a couple while fighting for the lead, by some unfortunately placed rocks on the racing line.

I would like to see him in a fiesta, probably a better bet than Elfyn. Unfortunately age is against him so this will not become a reality I doubt.
25th May 2018, 16:21
BigWorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm75

In both cases, Meeke and the touring car Loeb episode, just shows the psa group to be as inconsistent as the handling of the c3.
Yes, I'm a Brit and yes I'm a meeke fan. To be honest, I thought his days in shitroen were probably numbered at the end of the season, unless he had a run of good results.

He has had more than his share of bad luck, usually when fighting for the win or podium position. I think frustration has always got the better of him, which is why we see the crashes in the lower positions on the leaderboard.
Given the way the team has been run, I think any driver in his position would feel added pressure, only running two cars on certain events, possibility of being dropped willy nilly, results led decision on remaining in the championship next year etc.

As for Kris being top three fastest drivers, I believe given the right tools it's certainly a possibility. 2016 was probably the only year where he had no pressure, in a car that development had stopped, was really the only serious challenger to Ogier, winning rallies and taken out of a couple while fighting for the lead, by some unfortunately placed rocks on the racing line.

I would like to see him in a fiesta, probably a better bet than Elfyn. Unfortunately age is against him so this will not become a reality I doubt.

I think this is true, he can produce fast stage times and when the pressure was off him in 2016 he looked better than ever. But that also shows that when the pressure is on he falters. When you're contracted for a full season there's always at least a slight amount of pressure that you need to deliver for the sake of a championship, be it manu or drivers. Meeke himself said before Monte that everyone wants to win the championship, to do that as a driver you have to cope.

Sure the C3 is not state of the art, but that doesn't excuse him to bin it in the side of the road whenever it's not working as good as the other cars. He's a very brave man to push those limits, which is admirable, but he's also not very measured in his approach which hinders his potential success. By judging his history that won't change.
25th May 2018, 16:34
er88

I'd say Meeke is in the top 4 in terms of being the fastest driver. Can you really argue?!

Ogier, Neuville, Tanak and Meeke.

Mikkelsen is proving in Hyundai what we already knew from years at VW, he's not top level in terms of raw pace. Jari has regressed and Lappi isn't there yet - give it time though.

Regardless, fastest driver doesn't mean best overall. That's always been Meeke's problem
25th May 2018, 16:39
Norm75

Very good point Bigworm, and difficult to argue against that. Just thought that if he went to Msport, provided Ogier was still there, being a number two driver may mean less pressure, and a car that maybe doesn't need overdriving so much.

Let's not kid ourselves that the c3 is completely fixed. Loeb went well in it but still binned it, and Breen got 2nd in Sweden, with favourable road position, by admitted to chucking it into corners, not knowing if it would stick, and being surprised that it did.
25th May 2018, 16:41
BigWorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by er88

I'd say Meeke is in the top 4 in terms of being the fastest driver. Can you really argue?!

Ogier, Neuville, Tanak and Meeke.

Mikkelsen is proving in Hyundai what we already knew from years at VW, he's not top level in terms of raw pace. Jari has regressed and Lappi isn't there yet - give it time though.

Regardless, fastest driver doesn't mean best overall. That's always been Meeke's problem

And that's a really nice prospect, 4 different drivers competing for the title in 4 different cars. In stead it's down to 3.
25th May 2018, 16:51
denkimi

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.
25th May 2018, 16:54
Essaj

Quote:

Originally Posted by denkimi

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.

Fia rx instagram page actually commented to Meeke something like "Let's keep in touch" or something along those lines, maybe he can find drive there unless M-sport aint interested.
25th May 2018, 16:58
Fast Eddie WRC

Sadly for all the great moments of...

http://cdn.sport-auto.ch/wp-content/...70122248AL.jpg

There were at least 5 or 6 times as many...

https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https:...om/R2k7xrF.jpg
25th May 2018, 19:02
spiderem

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWorm

I think this is true, he can produce fast stage times and when the pressure was off him in 2016 he looked better than ever. But that also shows that when the pressure is on he falters. When you're contracted for a full season there's always at least a slight amount of pressure that you need to deliver for the sake of a championship, be it manu or drivers. Meeke himself said before Monte that everyone wants to win the championship, to do that as a driver you have to cope.

Sure the C3 is not state of the art, but that doesn't excuse him to bin it in the side of the road whenever it's not working as good as the other cars. He's a very brave man to push those limits, which is admirable, but he's also not very measured in his approach which hinders his potential success. By judging his history that won't change.

Don't underestimate his wins in 2016 were mainly thanks to good road position...
25th May 2018, 19:30
Arnold Triyudho Wardono

Quote:

Originally Posted by denkimi

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.

With Megane RX..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk
25th May 2018, 19:31
danon

Kris Meeke crashes compilation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=mtu7I8iH5Ks
25th May 2018, 19:50
AndyRAC

Citroen are going nowhere fast; completely inept management. Do us all a favour and pull the plug at the end of the year.

However, I'd like to know what happened their budget compared to previous WRC programmes; they seem to be run on a shoestring budget, with added AbuDhabi backing. Have the board gone cold on a WRC programme? And to be honest, I don't know what they get out of their WRC effort. Their road cars are hardly inspiring, are they?
25th May 2018, 19:55
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

However, I'd like to know what happened their budget compared to previous WRC programmes; they seem to be run on a shoestring budget, with added AbuDhabi backing. Have the board gone cold on a WRC programme? And to be honest, I don't know what they get out of their WRC effort. Their road cars are hardly inspiring, are they?

There was a comparison of testing kms before the start of 2017 season where citroen had like 50% more than Hyundai which again had much more than the next team. That must have cost quite a lot of money (even with not participating in 2016 season).

But judging by Al Quassimi comments it might be that emirates money got turned down quite a bit after their performance at the start of 2017.
25th May 2018, 20:05
mknight

Anyway in terms of Meeke's exit at Citroen I believe there is not much more/different to say from anyone.

So where do both go from here:

Citroen

I guess most agree that Breen should drive all rallies. Østberg will likely drive some, probably in (semi)-paying mode.

But who else?
- nobody/money driver. No car is possible, money driver is imo not very likely, Østberg and maybe Al Quassimi will do that.
- Paddon or Sordo on events they don't start. I don't really think so, maybe Hyundai won't allow them. Also Paddon has (seemingly) most of his events ahead of him. Sordo is doing well this year so he maybe has no motivation
- some young driver to "test out", if they plan on staying next year (or at least Budar wants to try it) this is possible. But not many good candidates to pick. Skoda might not let Tidemand. Of the French guys I'd rather see Camilli again than Lefevbre.

Meeke
I can see him in a Fiesta on 2? events. Don't remember Suninens exact program, but I don't think it says anywhere he needs to be factory nominated. So Meeke could be used by Malcolm as a joker in manu/drivers title.
This would imo be good for all sides and for spectators and Meeke prbly needs this if he has hopes for drive in 2019.
25th May 2018, 20:37
dimviii

i can understand Citroens decision,but dont like it.
Dont like it because Meeke is one to watch at wrc,for good and bad reasons.
Yes he didnt manage to deliver,but he didnt helped from his team to deliver.
I dont believe that any other driver would manage good results at c3.
Impossible for any driver to deliver good results,when team after one year, had to call Loeb to justify the c3 problems.
There is no such example at wrc.
Citroen isnt the same team that won everything at last decade.
Strange decisions,less budget,not good drivers choices.
While Meeke is probably paid for rest of season,they preffered to fire him,than to enter him at wrc2 with c3 r5.
They will still try with Lefebvre to beat the official skodas(lol)
after the ''problematic'' ds3,they build a new car,and demonstrate it against the king championship winning fabia,with 1 crew against 2 crews of skoda.The starnge decisions i talked.
Will be surprised anybody if they fail?
This game you have to spent money to play.If you cant afford ,you just dont play.When you do it ,you have to do it right.
You dont ridicule a glorious team with such presentation at world playing level.

Saying that,i dont mean that Meeke hasnt his share at this sideline.Some of his crashes there is no excuse when he hadnt got to push.
Wish him all the best for the future.
i d like to see him at a couple rallies with a prooven car.
25th May 2018, 20:42
noel157

Quote:

Originally Posted by mknight

Actually it is not fully true. (apart from the fact that there is no Mikkelson or Otsberg in WRC)

Breen has better result this year than Meeke (2nd vs 3rd).
Mikkelsen beat Meeke on both rallies where they raced together (Sardinia - even snail pace was enough to get points and beat Meeks crash, Germany he got second, Meeke got nothing due to crash again + technical, but this time Mikkelsen was also faster than him in 9 out of 13 stages and led him by over a minute in driving time).

Loeb was ahead of Meeke both times when he had puncture and off and beat him on both PS. "Loeb was getting beaten by Lappi in Corsica", he was on Saturday and Sunday + PS, but so was everyone else! Ohh and Lappi crashed causing a puncture in the process ;)

Østberg again beat Meeke on both rallies they raced together in same car (was a lot due to circumstances yes)

--------------
If anything, the 2nd places of Breen + Mikkelsen and Loeb's speed had debunked the idea that "only Meeke can drive C3 fast".
Yes only Meeke did win with it. 2 times in 18 rallies, Mikkelsen drove 3, Loeb and Østberg 2, Breen 14 but before C3 his best results was a single 3rd place.

-----------------
Everyone understands that the crash in Portugal was really just the last drop/excuse for Citroen leadership.

However, there was a major difference compared with Ogier, Latvala, Tanak or Paddon. Those guys crashed when they were in real fights, 2 of them while leading the rally.

Meeke crashed when he was 40s behind Østberg and getting beaten by him in stagetimes (Lappi's penalty was registered first on Sunday). At that point he had nothing to fight for and the crash was completely unnecessary.

In all my many years following this sport, indeed any sport, I have never, ever come across anybody who has such a festering, obsessive dislike for a person in our sport as MKnight has for Meeke. You are not a rally fan, you are not a sports fan, frankly I don't know what you are other than some self righteous and obnoxious troll that spends endless hours on eWRC compiling silly little lists trying and failing to justify your ego driven, odious little tirades that you post on what seems a daily basis.
This post is not about me or anybody else being a fan of Meeke. Kris Meeke is a human being, he has a wife, children, a brother and a father. How would you feel if somebody launched constant disparaging tirades of criticism at a member of your family in the manner that you do? This is a public forum and you, whoever you are, should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
We all have negative opinions on drivers at times but unlike you and one or two of your acolytes we don't make it a part time career.
25th May 2018, 21:09
seb_sh

I don't know why this debate is going on, I think Budar's clarification made it clear enough why he was dropped. It makes sense either way, if Citroen doesn't continue they probably don't need the extra repair bills and a win or two won't matter and if they do continue the plan to have Meeke as lead driver isn't working out so they can try to focus on others.
25th May 2018, 21:16
Sulland

Maybe it had been a good idea to let him drive the R5, then it for sure had been tested good. But I guess he did not want to.

To focus more forward, I still feel the best of the rest, is Mr Tidemand. Would be perfect practice for him before Skoda in 2020.
Paddon is also a good candidate.
25th May 2018, 21:16
AnttiL

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan
25th May 2018, 21:20
noel157

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan

But does Loeb want Citroen?
25th May 2018, 21:35
mknight

Quote:

Originally Posted by noel157

In all my many years following this sport, indeed any sport, I have never, ever come across anybody who has such a festering, obsessive dislike for a person in our sport as MKnight has for Meeke. You are not a rally fan, you are not a sports fan, frankly I don't know what you are other than some self righteous and obnoxious troll that spends endless hours on eWRC compiling silly little lists trying and failing to justify your ego driven, odious little tirades that you post on what seems a daily basis.
This post is not about me or anybody else being a fan of Meeke. Kris Meeke is a human being, he has a wife, children, a brother and a father. How would you feel if somebody launched constant disparaging tirades of criticism at a member of your family in the manner that you do? This is a public forum and you, whoever you are, should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
We all have negative opinions on drivers at times but unlike you and one or two of your acolytes we don't make it a part time career.

My post you just quoted was a response to godlike worship which stated how Meeke "beat these all" in C3.

I do respond to fanboy godlike-worship with facts, and give credit when due. Check out my praises of Meeke after Catalunya and GB last year and after Monte this year. I have nothing against Meeke and I don't launch into any "tirades" against him. I wish him luck in his career and hope we see him (prbly in Fiesta) soon.

Unlikely quite many forum members I write long arguments instead of one liners about "village teams, nobodys etc." For some reason this results in some fans responding with personal attacks.
25th May 2018, 21:45
olemann

I'm very sorry not to see Meeke more in WRC this year. He was an honest person and you felt he was honest when he stated. I'm going to miss him as one of the rally aristocrats.
I hope to see him back in the WRC where he belongs.
25th May 2018, 22:18
bassist

Quote:

Originally Posted by danon

Kris Meeke crashes compilation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=mtu7I8iH5Ks

Mmmmm, food for thought !
25th May 2018, 22:57
N.O.T

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan

lol...
26th May 2018, 00:13
Norm75

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.O.T

lol...

Indeed. Ridiculous theory, Kris wasn't contracted for next year (not that contract seems worth the paper) so dropping him now would have no bearing.
26th May 2018, 03:08
KiwiWRCfan

Listen carefully at 8 minutes to Luis Moya's thoughts about Kris Meeke. Note this was recorded prior to Stage 13 on Saturday during Rally Portugal and aired live on Redbull TV
Premonition or Crystal Ball or just words of an Experienced Team Manager

https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1U6B...ge-13-portugal
26th May 2018, 10:19
denkimi

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.
26th May 2018, 10:23
EightGear

Quote:

Originally Posted by denkimi

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.

Portugal 15 or 16 maybe?
26th May 2018, 10:31
TWRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by denkimi

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.

I think that was 2014, and maybe Portugal?
26th May 2018, 10:33
Franky

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRC

I think that was 2014, and maybe Portugal?

Correct - https://youtu.be/EA163aRuIFY?t=1m57s
26th May 2018, 11:57
Rally Power

Surprised with Clark thoughts on Meeke situation; he managed to be quite objective and fair. Well done.
https://youtu.be/a9P6SHhnyBk
26th May 2018, 12:49
BigWorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rally Power

Surprised with Clark thoughts on Meeke situation; he managed to be totally objective and fair. Well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=a9P6SHhnyBk

He does however cite Meeke as the second best Citroën driver in terms of win, but I think Ogier won more in a Citroën than Meeke.

Other than that, a part from a little bias here and there, some decent thoughts by CC.
26th May 2018, 14:20
TWRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWorm

He does however cite Meeke as the second best Citroën driver in terms of win, but I think Ogier won more in a Citroën than Meeke.

Other than that, a part from a little bias here and there, some decent thoughts by CC.

Yes, Ogier in 2011 alone had as many wins as Meeke have got so far. So counting in his 2010 wins, he has more.
26th May 2018, 21:59
racerx1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan

Listen carefully at 8 minutes to Luis Moya's thoughts about Kris Meeke. Note this was recorded prior to Stage 13 on Saturday during Rally Portugal and aired live on Redbull TV
Premonition or Crystal Ball or just words of an Experienced Team Manager

https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1U6B...ge-13-portugal

Moya probably knew that one more crash and Meeke was out.
26th May 2018, 22:27
itix

Like Porter I believe that this is indeed from above Budar's head. Likely Jackson or someone else from top management.

Kris had crashed more times than he had started rallies at the midpoint of last season.

Malcolm fired Tänak after one season so I'm frankly amazed that Citroen put up with Kris for 4 whole seasons.

Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go. Maybe he'll crash, in which case he can't be worse, maybe he'll stay on the road as he has done the last couple of competitions, and produce some amazing driving.

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