Silly Season 2015

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Originally Posted by RAS007

the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition.

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I know it is pointless to answer and you will now start the same story of why he stayed at Citroen and he retired when VW came in WRC and blah blah blah... but lets see the number again:

Didn't Hirvonen take it to last rally to decide the title two times (2009 and 2011)? This to me seems there was some competition. Look again to the championship standings from 2004-2007, the differences are greater than you think, except 2007. Remember 2006 he was away for 4 rallies. Here are the average points differences from champion (adjusted to 25 points for win before 2010):

	2003	2004	2005	2006	2007	2008	2009	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014
2	0.18	5.63	8.75	0.16	0.63	3.17	0.21	8.08	0.62	4.38	8.77	3.77
3	1.61	6.09	8.75	7.34	2.66	9.50	6.04	8.23	2.00	8.92	9.85	9.00
4	2.50	7.03	10.78	9.06	7.97	10.67	10.83	8.38	3.85	9.31	12.62	10.85
5	4.11	8.75	11.56	9.84	10.78	12.00	12.08	9.69	8.62	11.23	12.85	12.23

To me it seems that 2004-2005 and 2010 were the years with the least competition but still you (and some others) only talk about after Marcus retired...
Also have in mind that in 2013 Ogier was way more dominant than Loeb ever was. Does this mean he didn't deserve the championship?

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Originally Posted by RAS007

We aren't talking about Ogier. I agree that Loeb is one of the greats, I just don't think that he is the greatest; the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition. I would have loved to see him try for a title in another car, or not to have "retired" just as VW were arriving on the scene. The WRC would have been better for it.

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Absolutely, I'd have loved to see Loeb in the Ford or any other car in that period, however which driver in the history of the WRC has left the best team to find a new challenge? None.

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some. How long can one man be at the top of his game though? Loeb passed his peak very gracefully, and in Monte Carlo he will show he is still the greatest despite a lack of rallying (and an inferior car).

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Originally Posted by Doon

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some.

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In a way he did with the limited very last season

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Originally Posted by Franky

In a way he did with the limited very last season

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of course hi did it.Fast at every surface,inside the battle for win for all 4 rallies.

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Originally Posted by Doon

Absolutely, I'd have loved to see Loeb in the Ford or any other car in that period, however which driver in the history of the WRC has left the best team to find a new challenge? None.

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Mainly true, but not completely.

Kankunnen left Lancia, which was easily the best Group A team in 1987, because he felt that despite winning a the drivers championship for them, he was getting short-shrifted in favor of his Italian teammates. He spent two seasons driving an inferior Celica ST165 that was still being developed.

Sainz left what was arguably the best team in 1993 (Toyota Team Europe), apparently because his oil company sponsor (Repsol, I believe) was no longer sponsoring TTE, which was now sponsored by Castrol. He went over to a Lancia team that was no longer a works team.

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Originally Posted by Doon

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some.

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There is no question mark. Loeb was close to retirement few years ago, and facing VW/Ogier challenge would not be in his favour at all, despite this was VW first year, he would never take the win here.

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Originally Posted by lewalcindor

Mainly true, but not completely.



Sainz left what was arguably the best team in 1993 (Toyota Team Europe), apparently because his oil company sponsor (Repsol, I believe) was no longer sponsoring TTE, which was now sponsored by Castrol. He went over to a Lancia team that was no longer a works team.

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You mean he was getting extra money from his sponsor apart from the contract he had with the team?

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Originally Posted by RAS007

...the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition...

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That's twisted logic. It was him who made them looking like no opposition. If he was not there You could follow 5 years of battles for the title and maybe You would celebrate how great years those were. How would You know they were so bad if there was nobody better? It's Loeb who made them looking like bunch of amateurs and that's why he is the greatest of all because nobody else ever managed to beat his rivals for almost a decade so badly that people started to think others are just so bad.

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Originally Posted by nafpaktos

You mean he was getting extra money from his sponsor apart from the contract he had with the team?

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Yes. Apparently Repsol also provided money to back Sainz, and when Castrol came in to replace Repsol as the head sponsor of TTE, Sainz had to leave.

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Originally Posted by lewalcindor

Yes. Apparently Repsol also provided money to back Sainz, and when Castrol came in to replace Repsol as the head sponsor of TTE, Sainz had to leave.

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so Sainz didn t choose to leave from a works team to a private team,but his personal sponsor.

Kankkunen left Lancia because somebody else was the favourate driver,and not to proove that he can win with another car/make.