Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

There have been recent examples of drivers being told "save fuel", or something similar. Were they not a team order?

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actually no (like 99% sure). It can be seen from race results that such radio commnads never led to any significant result changes between teammates (that I know of or can remember - also we are talking places 1 and 2 here not places 12 and 13.... would make no sense there anyway)

also, when the matter came up first with the McLaren duel I also was thinking if this is team orders. but
1. the result did not change, they actually fought pretty hard, pretty fair and where still friends afterwards. that is what it should be.
2. it can be proven by data and the fact that McLaren for sure gambles low on fuel this year. so this indeed is a believable command from pits and one that should
3. better have no hidden meaning as for the driver can't judge if fuel is really low if there is a double meaning to it. This better be clear. So actually a bad idea to use a low fuel command for this.

the topic with fuel was discussed after that a lot and since we are just not used to it anymore, this year the fuel actually *is* an isue sometimes, with McLaren more than others maybe. You could follow the McLaren fuel economy run yesterday too. With no impact on the result. So I do not see any save fuel commands as strategy, at any team for that matter.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Eh, that's not insurbordination. Not telling him Alonso was quicker having been asked to say it by the team would be however.

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Doing exactly what you are ordered to do is obeying orders
Adding your own postscript to indicate that you disagree with the order you have passed on is insubordination (as opposed to disobedience) Look it up in the OED or Websters :cool:

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Originally Posted by bluegem280

Perhaps team's prediction that Alonso was faster than Massa is right. If not mistaken in lap 16 he can make the gap closer, and traffic in lap 21 was benefiting him again to run in slipstream right behind Massa, we may see that Alonso already took the leads although at the end Massa managed to hold him off.

He might not want to drive overly offensive to the teammate -besides Massa is the one already at the team way longer than him- and decided to back off that gave chance cooling down the engine while Massa keep pushing the car. It was likely Massa's car experiencing power-down and Alonso consistently succeeded to close the gap and took the lead.

We are just not pleased with the move of Massa that looked as if he gave the way for Alonso went through. Imo it was coincidence, no deliberate team order...

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And I'm quite sure the moon is made of cheese, it's so yellow. :D

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Originally Posted by Koz

You are very wrong on that I was a fan boy, anyone who frequents the chat will confirm this, I have ALWAYS supported him until last night.

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But why take it out on Alonso?
All he did was whine a bit as usual... he didn't tell Massa to pull over, Ferrari did!

Like a two year old throws a tantrum cos he wants a sweety and his parent's cave in and give it to him. Personally, I'd blame the parents :)

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

But why take it out on Alonso?
All he did was whine a bit as usual... he didn't tell Massa to pull over, Ferrari did!

Like a two year old throws a tantrum cos he wants a sweety and his parent's cave in and give it to him. Personally, I'd blame the parents :)

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Not a whine,it was Fernando's code for 'I've got the dirt on you and I'll dish it unless you tell this joker that I'm contractually Numero Uno'
This code is actually written into every contract he signs :s mokin:

in this forum, the absolute majority calls it a whine, so it's also a whine ;) :p

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

in this forum, the absolute majority calls it a whine, so it's also a whine ;) :p

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Thank goodness you did not say whinge, cos that rhymes with......

Swinge, binge, twinge.... no got me beat, What else? ;)

Massa got benefit from Alonso and Vettel duel at the start. It was almost done Alonso can pass Massa at lap 21. There was possibility if he played it with ego both of them will fail ala Webber - Vettel incident in Turkey, and in such incident driver who want to overtake is usually the one to blame, if so both of them would score no points. He would better save the engine and tyres and looking for better opportunity to overtake.

Team only said to Massa that Alonso is faster than him, it can be perceived that he must set better lap times. Alonso scored fastest lap more than 0.2 s better than Massa. He also had average better laps time than Massa, Alonso is overall faster... ;)

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Actually I hate to break it for you, but it is Santander. And they have not forgotten that.

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Yes, Santander pay out Kimi with 15'000'000 $ and put in Alonso to the Ferrari team as the first driver and now it's "only" Ferraris job left .. to make him to a champion.. Kimi wouldn't never give Alonso free wayfaring and that's the reason they (Santander) kick him out.. and because they wanted to be sure that Kimi don’t take any drive for 2010 they put in a “fine” 5’000’000 $ in their “arrangement” if he do it.. so F1 loosed one of the best driver on the greed.. and now they don’t let Felipe win and in that way take a way the other threat against Alonsos way to the title.. "money speaks in the rich-men world"..

That’s what I think.