Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

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Originally Posted by Sal yet again

And thats the way EVs are going to have to go to get take up especially in the UK unless the business model moves totally away from purchasing a car outright to leasing/personal contract hire. Not that many can afford north of £35k for a half decent leccy car.

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If you can't afford a half decent electric car, you can't afford to facilitate charging a cheap one at home. Unless, perfect car for young twenty-somethings living with Mum and Dad in their new build off a roundabout on the bypass miles away from anything. These can at least facilitate charging at home. Folk in terraces, flats and housing schemes of northern towns cannot.

Might flog a few, not saying it's not worth doing, they've got to do it for now with these blinkered governments until the u-turns come. I wouldn't say price alone is affecting take up.

Also, can we just agree now that these won't be £17k in 2027?

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Yeah, Sh1t Useless Vehicle........

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I'm under the impression the correct term was Stupid Usless Vehicle. I kept wondering why the manufacturers so openly told the consumer that they'd be paying extra for such a shitty product.

How many events does Ogier have left with Toyota for the rest of the season?

Ford are sharing EV platforms with VW, so Ford likely has a small ev on the way too. If the losses in the US don't sink them.

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Originally Posted by Humber

Ford are sharing EV platforms with VW, so Ford likely has a small ev on the way too. If the losses in the US don't sink them.

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i think they built a ford explorer in europe on the vw platform already? but its a suv/crossover.

this is so rad. i always think "ahh i should watch this championship" but i have no money right now to pay for their broadcast
https://youtu.be/H9vzeZBLv5c?feature=shared

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Originally Posted by becher

I'm under the impression the correct term was Stupid Usless Vehicle. I kept wondering why the manufacturers so openly told the consumer that they'd be paying extra for such a shitty product.

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Manus are creating the 'demand' for SUVs by pandering to the human instinct that bigger is better.

(If you take two cars to a tribe that's never seen a car, they will choose the biggest of the two.)

It's a crazy situation - manufacturers should be doing everything to educate people that lighter and smaller cars are better for economy and for the planet.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Manus are creating the 'demand' for SUVs by pandering to the human instinct that bigger is better.

(If you take two cars to a tribe that's never seen a car, they will choose the biggest of the two.)

It's a crazy situation - manufacturers should be doing everything to educate people that lighter and smaller cars are better for economy and for the planet.

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It's not that simple. The main thing which goes against the small light cars is the regulations. They are the reason why people prefer to buy large cars and also why manufacturers prefer to sell large cars (manus heavily advertising large cars is a consequence not a reason). It's a paradox but it's true.

The past decades brough two main development areas - safety and emissions. Year after year the regulations have been stricter. Every single car first got mandatory ABS, later ESP, than another stuff and than another. Same goes about the development in emissions. All of that costs money. A lot of money and what is important the mandatory stuff costs basically the same money to develop and to produce regardless the size of the vehicle. So the situation got to a point where these fixed expenses got so high that it was no more profitable to sell any car under certain relatively high price tag. Here goes the reasson why the manus like large cars like SUVs because they can sell them for price which gives them good profit even when they need to cover the expenses of the latest regulations. And it's also the reason why small cars got so expensive.

It's a paradox but less strict regulations about safety and emissions could actually help if they were accompanied with another measures like weight limits. The CO2 emissions are a function of consumption and the real consumption is mainly about weight and drag. Also cheaper smaller cars would likely lead to overall younger car park in most of the countries. Novadays we have great new cars but huge percentage of people still drives 20-30 years old cars and they don't give a shit about some emission limits.

That sounds like a compelling argument.

But then how come many manufacturers still can and do sell small cars ?

These are just the best-sellers...

Toyota Yaris
Honda Jazz
Renault Clio
Vauxhall Corsa
Peugeot 208
Volkswagen Polo
Hyundai i10
SEAT Ibiza
Dacia Sandero
Kia Picanto
Škoda Fabia
Audi A1
Fiat New 500
Mini Hatch
Renault Zoe
Suzuki Swift
Volkswagen Up
Mazda 2

There's clearly still a substantial market for these cars, so it seems to me that those no longer making them, and just selling and promoting SUVs, are doing so purely for the extra profit to be made.

Yesterday I had a yearly technical verification of my Focus at a local Ford dealer. While I was waiting for my car I had a look at their car showroom. I didn't find any small car. The smallest one was Puma and the cheapest one was 23 300 €. It's ridiculous. I had a talk with one of the employees and he told me that not only Ford gets rid of the small cars. He said that soon Skoda will stop selling Fabia and VW will stop selling Golf (although I'm not sure if I can believe him).

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Yesterday I had a yearly technical verification of my Focus at a local Ford dealer. While I was waiting for my car I had a look at their car showroom. I didn't find any small car. The smallest one was Puma and the cheapest one was 23 300 €. It's ridiculous. I had a talk with one of the employees and he told me that not only Ford gets rid of the small cars. He said that soon Skoda will stop selling Fabia and VW will stop selling Golf (although I'm not sure if I can believe him).

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Well the VW Polo will probably live until 2030: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volksw...pdates-planned

And since the Fabia is on the same platform (& the newer car of the two) it would be safe to assume that it would also live until then. Mind you the Polo got it’s facelift back in April 2021 & the new Fabia was introduced the following month in May 2021, so I think talking about their deaths is premature. Based on that I think the Golf would also live until 2030. Truth is, no one really knows what’s gonna go with the electrification process and how long it will actually take to phase out these cars. Yes, I’m aware by 2035 Europe will stop selling ICE cars but if history has taught us anything time and again is that things can always change, and nothing stays permanent. So even if we think this and that will happen in the future, we’re no fortune tellers and we have no way of actually knowing what will happen in the car industry.