Petter Solberg WRT

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

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do you have information that was colin to blame for the accident ?? i never heard anything about the causes....But again thats a low blow.

as for alpha its not the age that matters but the ability to win for someones reason to retire...and its a long way to the end of the championship to make conclusions about solberg...i mean what if he crashes or underperforms in the next events ? you can never be sure about rallying at this level. after all he is second with both hirvonen and latvala having some major problems so i think speedwise he is not faster than them and probably a bit slower than sordo and ogier as well....especially on gravel where its all about tactics....but as i said he is doing far better than expected but still all questions haven;t been answered yet after just 4 rounds and with the tarmac rallies still ahead.

http://www.nes-sledeverksted.no/img/...irger%20XS.jpg
:D

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Originally Posted by Alpha

That can be said about lots of drivers... Loeb is 36, holy ****, why didn't anyone kick him out years ago?! Spend money on the 18-24 year olds!

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Loeb is payed by Citroen, but its only an opinion, maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle.

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Originally Posted by Jake Stephens

I would say that you are a sad individual for saying that about Colin, his family and friends but you just want to provoke people. Shameful comment.

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No, the initial reports were confirmed by the offcial inquiry which in the typical British way of extreme understatement said that he was doing arobatics and aggressive maneuvering at low altitude, and in "deteriorating weather" conditions and that further he was not qualified in that specific helicopter and that there was nothing indicating any mechanical fault.
Just like he crashed countless times in rally cars---and always ready to blame the engineers, mechanics and his co-drivers, the crash which killed his son, his neighbor and the other kid was his doing.

I've driven a few miles on stages, and spent 20 years crashing my moto-cross bike on 4 continents and a dozen countries---in fact in the last year I've had 2 operations on my spine and 5 weeks ago got a new knee to replace the one ripped up over ther years, I take responibilty for what i did on my bike and in my rally car, and my co-drivers understand we can flip and there are risks.

Hotdogging in a helicopter is risky, and the proof that he was out of control is as simple as looking at the charred pile of burnt wreckage that was left---(in other words, the helicopter did not crash itself).
It was a tragedy but a completely unnecessary tragedy.

Suggesting otherwise from some idol worship is to spit on the graves of 2 young children and his neighbor---does your silly idealization go that far?
You ignoring their pointless deaths is worse than sad, its disgusting, and when it's done from some fan-boy sentim,ents it is atrocious.

The POINT is that Colin, when he priced himself out of the range anybody would pay for his services, and burned every bridge behind him, parked his butt and quit, and Petter has not.

Petter's "Hollywood" schtick is not to my taste, but I admire his determination, he's out there doing damn good while Atko pouts and pisses away critical years.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

The small off Petter had on sunday could just as well have been Loebs small off and then Petter would be on top. Setting the times and results he does with the amount of cash behind him is incredible and as far as I am concerned a much bigger achievement than Loebs first places.




That can be said about lots of drivers... Loeb is 36, holy ****, why didn't anyone kick him out years ago?! Spend money on the 18-24 year olds!


As for janvanvurpa - I couldn't be bothered to check the context, just browsed quickly through the last pages, sorry if I didn't catch your sarcasm.

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That's OK, tone of voice doesn't carry too well. I just wanted to set the record straight that I think the obvious rather newish trend of putting 18-20 year olds in WRC cars and waiting for them to maybe learn their craft like Latvala, Hirvonen, Wilson etc is something we hadn't seen in decades past.
It seemed presumed that it takes some X number of years to accumulate routine, and experience and just plain seat-time and it didn't seem to be some detriment if a driver was 28 or 35, if he made results.

Now it seems as important that he is pretty, and young and "photogenic", and of course if he can bring truckloads of bundled up bank notes, then he can be an instant M2 driver.

It seems a farce.

I agree, it's parts of whats wrong with the WRC the latest years. An excellent driver like P. Solberg had to pay for his own team and car? That's just plain crazy.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

... specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

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Wow! That's a bit harsh. So much for RIP.

It was a tragedy for the families involved, showing off or not, I don't believe that kind of statement is necessary.
You don't know who reads this forum, possibly McRae family members.
Take it easy.

Seems like this forum is an outlet of stored up anger sometimes.

As for the PSWRT, bloody fantastic stuff. Full credit to anyone who can put together their own team like that, and get podiums to boot. A+ effort.

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Originally Posted by Maui J.

Wow! That's a bit harsh. So much for RIP.

It was a tragedy for the families involved, showing off or not, I don't believe that kind of statement is necessary.
You don't know who reads this forum, possibly McRae family members.
Take it easy.

Seems like this forum is an outlet of stored up anger sometimes.

As for the PSWRT, bloody fantastic stuff. Full credit to anyone who can put together their own team like that, and get podiums to boot. A+ effort.

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Death of children is harsher than anything I can say.
I have had friends killed and maimed in motosport and it is bad for everybody but it was at their own hands doing things they knew was potentially very risky.
I have also had friends and close acquaintances killed by the recklessness of others and that is not something I accept with a shrug...

And, it is not anger, rather a cold hard feeling.

Maybe it's because I now have lovely beautiful children that his killing a couple of kids makes me speak so.

Whatever the case what's done is done and the REAL point, which was clear is how even though he famously said "I'd do this for nothin" when he could get a ride, he turned his back and played with a insane wicked spec Escort and a 6R4.

Like most i was fed up with Petters constant complaining about the wretchedness of the works Subarus and while I understand loyalty both personal and professional, it must have been unbearable and make him a little crazy to know in his heart he KNOWS HOW TO go like satans fan but the car was so bad.

I wonder if he's kicking himself knowing how much time he lost being loyal.

Lycka till i framtiden is all I can say.

Turkey imo was the first rally that showed Solberg can actually even think about defeating Loeb. 16 seconds behind him going into final day, when Loeb is expected to loose because of sweeping is certainly not a bad position... then rain and canceled stages came. Still the best starting point anyone had against Loeb on final day on gravel this year.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

...its a long way to the end of the championship to make conclusions about solberg...i mean what if he crashes or underperforms in the next events ? you can never be sure about rallying at this level. after all he is second with both hirvonen and latvala having some major problems so i think speedwise he is not faster than them and probably a bit slower than sordo and ogier as well....especially on gravel where its all about tactics....but as i said he is doing far better than expected but still all questions haven;t been answered yet after just 4 rounds and with the tarmac rallies still ahead.

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Yes Petter is "only" second close to Hirvonen and Latvala who had problems, what about Sweden then? I kinda noticed Petter had quite a few problems as well, like 2 crashes.

"Speedwise he's not faster"
- against Hirvonen he has been ahead of him at every rally, even those where Mikko crashed
- against Latvala he was ahead in Mexico and Turkey, same pace in Jordan
- against Sordo - ahead of him at every rally, beating him on final day in Jordan and Turkey
- against Ogier - beating him from worse road position in Mexico, about same in Jordan, in Turkey Ogier got puncture just as Solberg was about to overtake him

Let's look at stage wins, which kinda should say something about speed no?

Loeb - 31
Solberg - 17
Ogier - 12
Latvala - 10
Hirvonen - 9
Sordo - 3

Everyone there except Loeb and Ogier had at least one rally where they had trouble. Solberg - Sweden, Latvala - Mexico, Hirvonen - Mexico+Jordan, Sordo - Mexico

Tarmac rallies, hard to say yes, only comparison is Spain last year, Solberg in first rally in C4 was 4th comfortably ahead of Ogier and Latvala. He has never been one of the fastest on tarmac, this year with new car I expect him between 3-5th (ahead of Latvala, fighting with Hirvonen and Ogier).

That you "think" Solberg is speedwise the slowest of them all is no surprise and nobody can take that from you, doesn't change the results though.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Loeb is payed by Citroen, but its only an opinion, maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle.

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Yes but sponsors aren't in it for the sake of driver development are they? They want to get the best return on their investment possible and that is more likely to come with Petter. I would guess that they are pretty happy with the return they have had so far this year.

The better scenario would be that Petter would be in a paid factory seat then the Norwegian sponsors could then support the up-coming drivers.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

It is a shame that the extreme sarcasm and parody of voice reflecting my rejection of the current trend in getting children of the "right" marketing demographic, that is to say 19-24 year old into WRC car so that the children view can worship them failed to be understood, and that your selective quoting missed the compliments to Sohlberg for getting off his ass and spending some of his own money and own personal efforts to secure a deal which he's doing fantastically with and in huge contrast to other well know supposed heroes who couldn't be troubled once they lost their rides did NOTHING, specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

I will presume your selective quoting was from laziness and sloth and poor reading ability rather than a serious attempt to make a point misunderstanding what was obviously implied.

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Disgraceful comments, shame on you.

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Originally Posted by RS

Yes but sponsors aren't in it for the sake of driver development are they? They want to get the best return on their investment possible and that is more likely to come with Petter. I would guess that they are pretty happy with the return they have had so far this year.

The better scenario would be that Petter would be in a paid factory seat then the Norwegian sponsors could then support the up-coming drivers.

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Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.
Scenarios dont help much, if they are not scenarios but wish thinking.
Many people have had simular scenarios you talk about for years now, but it seems not to happen, when a team nowdays sign a driver its a kind of investment for future.

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Originally Posted by ridder

Tarmac rallies, hard to say yes, only comparison is Spain last year, Solberg in first rally in C4 was 4th comfortably ahead of Ogier and Latvala. He has never been one of the fastest on tarmac, this year with new car I expect him between 3-5th (ahead of Latvala, fighting with Hirvonen and Ogier).

That you "think" Solberg is speedwise the slowest of them all is no surprise and nobody can take that from you, doesn't change the results though.

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Petter loves tarmac rallies, one of his favourites actually. The years in Subaru he did'nt do well on tarmac exept when it was raining.. First time out in a new car(C4 last year) he's on the pace.. Go figure.. I think he will surprise many people there also.... As a "has been" I mean... ;)

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.
Scenarios dont help much, if they are not scenarios but wish thinking.
Many people have had simular scenarios you talk about for years now, but it seems not to happen, when a team nowdays sign a driver its a kind of investment for future.

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Without the Solberg brothers noone in Norway would care about rallying and sponsors on a national level like the ones Petter & Henning have pulled out would have invested in something totally different. In periods where Petter has underperformed or rallies where he hasn't started no Norwegian national media even mentioned the WRC.
No "up and coming" driver would stand a chance without the Solberg brothers and if they both retire tomorrow all new driver would be sh*t out of luck.

If you're gonna bitch about someones age, bitch about Grönholm, he's 42 and still out there blocking the way for other up and coming finnish drivers...

Petter's bang on the pace of the very fastest rally drivers in the world, and very well could be for the next couple of years. Too old? Hell no.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

If you're gonna bitch about someones age, bitch about Grönholm, he's 42 and still out there blocking the way for other up and coming finnish drivers...

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Im not bitching about someones age, who's carreer has Grönholm been blocking and in what way, maybe you can explain, so I get a good laugh?

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Im not bitching about someones age, who's carreer has Grönholm been blocking and in what way, maybe you can explain, so I get a good laugh?

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Matti Nykänens!

Gronholm blocking someones career? how ?

I fail to come up with a career he has blocked... I doubt that there is any one else who would drive Rantanens private Focus if Gronhom stepped aside.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Tomi: "... Its better to face the facts, petters carreer is about to come to an end. In norway it would be clever maybe to invest the limited sponsor money on new talent ..."

Tomi: "Feels a bit like a déjà vu, Petter comes out with big noise about his car and his chances, his fans gets carried away big time, it will be interesting to see, if it again this year will end up with mega crying, how unfair the world is."

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The first quote is still valid, about the second one, lets wait and see a few rallies.

"... maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle. ..."

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If Petter is so old, and standing in the way for money getting to younger drivers then surely that must be even worse for Grönholm which is 42. Or the same for Loeb, which is Petters age.
I just find the entire argument silly. If they're fast in a rallycar, let them drive! Age shouldn't play a role at all.

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Originally Posted by J.Lindstroem

I fail to come up with a career he has blocked... I doubt that there is any one else who would drive Rantanens private Focus if Gronhom stepped aside.

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Thats only because he is too busy teaching norwegians how to drive and set up cars.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Thats only because he is too busy teaching norwegians how to drive and set up cars.

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let's hope he will be successful at it :)

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Originally Posted by Alpha

If Petter is so old, and standing in the way for money getting to younger drivers then surely that must be even worse for Grönholm which is 42. Or the same for Loeb, which is Petters age.
I just find the entire argument silly. If they're fast in a rallycar, let them drive! Age shouldn't play a role at all.

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whose career gronholm blocks by participating in 3 events over 2 years time?

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

whose career gronholm blocks by participating in 3 events over 2 years time?

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I don't think he does, that was Tomi's line of reasoning. That the money put into his entry at Rally Sweden could be used to give an up and coming young finnish driver a chance?

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.

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Well, it's a nice idea from a driver development point of view but it still doesn't make commercial sense.

And anyhow I thought that you did not really rate the upcoming Norwegian talent, or is it just that you like winding up the Norwegians on this forum?

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Originally Posted by RS

Well, it's a nice idea from a driver development point of view but it still doesn't make commercial sense.

And anyhow I thought that you did not really rate the upcoming Norwegian talent, or is it just that you like winding up the Norwegians on this forum?

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Dont think too much you can get headache, i rate them the same i rate the other youngsters, the reality only is that from all those youngsters only a very few ends up as works drivers, thats why its important that they are present where the happening is much as possible, that rises their possibilities.

P.S. I dont hate anybody, but what i hate is the hype about someone who actually has done nothing.

Works drivers should come ONLY from JWRC..

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Originally Posted by Alpha

That the money put into his entry at Rally Sweden could be used to give an up and coming young finnish driver a chance?

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No reason to worry about that, everyone who deserves will get their chance.

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Originally Posted by Barreis

Works drivers should come ONLY from JWRC..

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But that rule would be stupid because people like Malcolm Wilson would still put his son in a WRC car.

BTW, Petter Solberg did not come from the JWRC.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

but what i hate is the hype about someone who actually has done nothing.

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So who is this then? And when have you done "something"?

I think the presence of ex-champions in the WRC is not a problem. Newcomers should earn their way into the WRC by proven speed. Petter, Seb, Burns, etc all made their way into the WRC by dominating local/smaller championships.

Maybe it's the attitude of giving WRC cars to young unproven drivers that's given us Wilson, Rautenbach and Novikov. I wouldn't mind if it was a rule that a driver can compete in the WRC only if he has won another FIA sanctioned rally championship, be it JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, IRC, or any remotely competitive national championship.

But I think having more competing cars is the most important step. Hopefully next year with the new specification there will be more manufacturers, more cars, and more competition.

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Originally Posted by Viking

So who is this then? And when have you done "something"?

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No particular driver, there is too many to pick someone out, what do you mean when have i done "something" ?

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Originally Posted by Tomi

No particular driver, there is too many to pick someone out, what do you mean when have i done "something" ?

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Not you Tomi :) , only wondering when you mean a driver has achieved something, as in opposite of nothing.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Not you Tomi :) , only wondering when you mean a driver has achieved something, as in opposite of nothing.

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I think all serious young drivers aim is a works car in WRC, after they get that they have achived their first goal, and done something, after that its up to them self how far they will go.

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Originally Posted by serial jeff

I think the presence of ex-champions in the WRC is not a problem. Newcomers should earn their way into the WRC by proven speed. Petter, Seb, Burns, etc all made their way into the WRC by dominating local/smaller championships.

Maybe it's the attitude of giving WRC cars to young unproven drivers that's given us Wilson, Rautenbach and Novikov. I wouldn't mind if it was a rule that a driver can compete in the WRC only if he has won another FIA sanctioned rally championship, be it JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, IRC, or any remotely competitive national championship.

But I think having more competing cars is the most important step. Hopefully next year with the new specification there will be more manufacturers, more cars, and more competition.

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True, P. Solberg became Norwegian champion in hillclimbing and rallycross in 1995 & 1996 and Norwegian rally champion in 1998. He signed with Malcolm Wilson at Ford the same year. He got his chance at Ford after sending Malcolm a promo-tape and begging. He was signed after coming to the UK, testing their cars and proving his speed.

That's the way is should be, young guys proving their speed and not the size of their parents bank account.

I hope we see many manufacturers and many teams join in with the new regulations. I think it's the only way we'll see the WRC gain interest again.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

True, P. Solberg became Norwegian champion in hillclimbing and rallycross in 1995 & 1996 and Norwegian rally champion in 1998. He signed with Malcolm Wilson at Ford the same year. He got his chance at Ford after sending Malcolm a promo-tape and begging. He was signed after coming to the UK, testing their cars and proving his speed.

That's the way is should be, young guys proving their speed and not the size of their parents bank account.

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Is this based on known facts or are you assuming he didn't bring any money to M-Sport?

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Originally Posted by DonJippo

Is this based on known facts or are you assuming he didn't bring any money to M-Sport?

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According to his own biography "110 percent" he drove 18 months for Ford without a contract. When he asked for one he didn't get any definite answers. Malcolm also had what Petter described as a very authoritative style of leadership and mistakes behind the steering wheel often resulted in verbal abuse from Malcolm. Imagine what Latvala has heard over the years...
The uncertainty at Ford and an increasingly difficult working environment took a heavy toll on Petter, to the degree that he contacted Olav Nøkling, a psychologist specializing in helping athletes. With help Petter got better and his driving also improved after learning to deal with all the drama outside the stages. When an offer came from David Lapworth it was easy to jump over to Subaru.

I don't know the contents of the verbal agreement between Petter and Malcolm, but he was an official part of the Ford junior team and I assume he got paid for driving either from Ford, Fords sponsors or his own sponsors. It's very unlikely that he brought any money to Ford without a written contract.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I don't know the contents of the verbal agreement between Petter and Malcolm, but he was an official part of the Ford junior team and I assume he got paid for driving either from Ford, Fords sponsors or his own sponsors. It's very unlikely that he brought any money to Ford without a written contract.

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At first Petter did not get paid by Ford but he got the car for free and allowed to have his own sponsors on the car to pay his salary and expenses.

Petter need to joint the tactics s*** of the others to have a chance to win.

As long as FIA do not change the starting order system, he looses too much by winning day 1.

The FIA should make the championship leader start 1st place on the road on all 3 days.

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Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

The FIA should make the championship leader start 1st place on the road on all 3 days.

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no they shouldnt, they should do the direct opposite and re-introduce reversed start order ALL three days.