Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by ozrevhead

so if thats the case why would he want to make it up when he has too much to lose

Renault will turn this on NPJ wheather they are innocent or not because its p--- easy for a company to go after a individual

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You are right, and that's also why Renault will only take legal action against Piquet in a French court and not anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You are right, and that's also why Renault will only take legal action against Piquet in a French court and not anywhere else.

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beg my pardon for my ignorace but why a french court

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Originally Posted by ioan

I don't remember such opinion being aired...

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I thought the issue of the FIA granting immunity was odd then, and I do now, although the circumstances are slightly different.

A couple of years ago immunity was used as an inducement by the FIA to get information. Here they have granted immunity after receiving information.

Sounds to me Renault doth protest too much

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

A couple of years ago immunity was used as an inducement by the FIA to get information. Here they have granted immunity after receiving information.

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How do we know that Piquet didn't ask for immunity before spilling the beans?
Looks to me, from Max' statement, that Jr was granted immunity in case he tells the truth which implies that he was first granted immunity and than told the truth as the other way around isn't logic.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Can I just get this right.

Flav says it was never discussed.
Pat says it was discussed but it was Jnr's idea.
Jn'r says he was invited to a meeting where the strategy was put to him.

Are these the facts of the matter?

If so, it's a given that the meeting happened and that the subject of a deliberate crash was discussed.

If that's the case, then Flav is liar #1.

Who is telling the truth between Pat and Jn'r?

Well, if you believe that Jn'r can come up with this idea all on his own to benefit his team mate, Renault and their sponsors who also sponsored the GP, then I've got a great investment opportunity in Peckham Spring Water for you.

Is it more likely that a strategy was thought up between 2 great F1 minds and suggested to a underperforming driver who would have sdone anything to secure a drive for next year?

It looks like we have gone from IF there was any substance to this allergation to "who is telling the truth".

Sad to say but apart from revenge against Flav, I cannot see any reason that Jn'r would lie especially as he still had a contract when he told Bernie about the allergation.

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perhaps it is all true

before the race in their usual meeting, NpJr brought up the idea, symmonds and flav said it is out of bounds, NPJr did it anyway and that is that. from flav's perspective, they did not discuss it, because it was NPJr who brought it up and they shot it down. From Pat S. view, it was discussed in the context that nelshino brought it up and they shot it down, from NPJr's point it was discussed and in his fragile state of mind believes that is what the team wanted from him as in his testimony it seems like he inferred a lot of things.

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Originally Posted by ioan

How do we know that Piquet didn't ask for immunity before spilling the beans?

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Fair point. We don't know one way or another. All we have is Max's comment that "he has been told that if he tells us the truth then he will not be proceeded against individually".

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

But that will not happen, because Max has given them (Jnr, certainly) immunity. Perhaps they should grant Renault immunity if they tell the truth.

Now, how do you tell the truth from a lie?

Madness, it really is.

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and that's why the whole thing shoyuld just go away. it is a he said she said thing of the past that has no bearing on the sport and only serves to further demean F1. There really wasn't enough evidence to go forward and there is plausible deniabilty on either side so why bother. It really is an internal renault matter that has spilled over to the public light, which mosley is all too happy to oblige at is is an opportunity to dirty up or scandalize one of his chief nemesis. This is like a celebrity divorce case played out in public with a corrupt court with an axe to grind

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Fair point. We don't know one way or another. All we have is Max's comment that "he has been told that if he tells us the truth then he will not be proceeded against individually".

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Which makes it clear that he was told something before he was going to give his side of the story and that he was expected to say the truth if he wanted the immunity.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

perhaps it is all true

before the race in their usual meeting, NpJr brought up the idea, symmonds and flav said it is out of bounds, NPJr did it anyway and that is that. from flav's perspective, they did not discuss it, because it was NPJr who brought it up and they shot it down. From Pat S. view, it was discussed in the context that nelshino brought it up and they shot it down, from NPJr's point it was discussed and in his fragile state of mind believes that is what the team wanted from him as in his testimony it seems like he inferred a lot of things.

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1. As I read it, it wasn't a "normal" meeting
2. If it was brought up and shot down, then it was raised and discussed.
3. The fact that it was discussed, happened, ignored and not reported is the crux of the matter. It cannot be ignored.

I never knew you were such a Renault fan TrueFan and cannot see why you are trying to brush this under the carpet.

When McLaren were mooted with wrongdoing, I was loud in calling for a full investigation. When they were guilty, I accepted their punishment (althought I questioned the size of the fine).

They did wrong, they were punished and I never tried to ignore the facts or sweep it under the carpet. They have paid their price and I still support them but what happened was wrong and they deserved their ass kicked.

IF Renault are in the wrong, and IF this happened as Jn'r says, then Flav, Jn'r and Pat are finished. However, we need an full and fair investigation.