It is fine and dandy that you can build a car now for "cheap" as a tuner. But how is it expected from them to compete with Toyotas budget?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
We will see 1-5 Toyota every rally now (on Performance), like today...
Printable View
It is fine and dandy that you can build a car now for "cheap" as a tuner. But how is it expected from them to compete with Toyotas budget?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
We will see 1-5 Toyota every rally now (on Performance), like today...
We just need 3 more toyota's for Neuville, Fourmaux and Armstrong, and we will have a better championship than today. A cheaper one also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
Fair point, but all they need is the Rally2s entering the rallies, an official Toyota team and a couple of supported bodywork-variant teams running Toyotas to feign a competition in a constructors championship similar to what's on today.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Still can't see them having a title for the FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers or Constructors when homologation of WRC27 comes with a requirement of a full and a half season commitment and Rally2 teams are rocking up being supported, because they won't be doing it alone.
But they did??? Why is this conversation here every few weeks when we already know that Rally2 will be a top category for the next seasons, next to WRC27?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Personal oppinion, but if the Rally2 were not so darn boring. Current rally has quite extended WRC2 coverage and I am bored to death. No sound, no agression, slow, drive like on rails. Sad times incommingQuote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth
Did they? If they do have Rally2s in a teams type championship it's a bizarre move and a shot in the foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth
Edit: I'd said they didn't move solely to Rally2s. Good example why this is a repetitive conversation.
Rally2 aren't boring. It's the championship which rarely gets all main competitors aligned on a single event. Not everyone goes anywhere. But it's clear something. Those who compete for WRC2, have always some one-off or local specialist to beat and usually isn't just cruising. There is no one in WRC1 who would mix that up (sure it was Solberg last year, but he quickly become Toyota member because of that. Maybe this will change in coming years with tuner teams.
Also I wonder what will they do with this WRC2 concept and entering events. Not everyone can afford full schedule and I think that many do like this support championship, because they can choose which events to go to. If WRC27 and Rally2 will all compete in main category alongside, surely many out of them won't stand a chance, since they will not be present on all 14-15-16 events. Will they keep WRC2 for those who will compete "part-time" and WRC for those who will commit to full season? What will Lancia do? Do they have that much budget. Also Skoda...
I think two opinions clash here. For me they are boring. They miss at least 100ps and more aero to be exiting (for the top class, for "F2" they are ok)Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
For the other topic: There must be still the WRC2 championship I hope. It's "just" that R2 now also score for WRC1, or is it?
Cars have become boring because they've become too good, too sophisticated. They have been made fast in place of exciting and fun.
Most people watch on tv and dont get the real impression of speed so the cars look boring as they dont slide around due to the fancy aero & suspension.
I dont see any way to fix this as you can never really go back in development. Although maybe the WRC27 cars fron the Tuners could be 'worse' so fun to watch.
Very possibly so. As a base logic, World Rally Championship for Constructors (or WRC27 teams) and WRC2 for Rally2 drivers and co-drivers until they're fully deprecated makes sense. WDC/WCC for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
But still with who knows what for next year of course.
Thank you.
Not really such a thing as WRC1, if you mean the World Driver and Codriver Championship, it always was like this. If you mean the World Manufacturer's championship, it's what I've been sceptical of for many pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
If Rally2s do go scoring for 'WRC1' manufacturers/constructors/teams; then WRC2 is redundant.
I agree with Fast Eddie WRC’s analysis. If you compare today’s Rally2 cars with the S2000 and the first-generation Rally2 cars like the Citroën DS3 and the Peugeot 208 T16 (back when it was still Rally5), they’re too efficient in terms of driving style, and the sound is also much quieter. They make less noise and don’t feel like they’re driving on the “limit” as much. This has nothing to do with horsepower. In my personal opinion, too much aero isn’t good for the sport either.
(I’m new here; I’ve been following these forums for years. I’ve finally managed to log in. This has been a source of information for me for years and I hope it doesn’t die out completely. That’s why I’ve decided to get more actively involved now)
Almost no car is boring when it's being driven by a good driver. When rc2's are being driven on the limit, they aren't boring.
It's just that most rc2's aren't driven by top drivers.
Just watch ERC from Sweden in 1 months time, its not boring i can tell you.
Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk
It’s definitely a huge downgrade in terms of speed, power, and spectacle, but I’ll take a highly competitive field any day. As they say, top drivers will push Rally2 cars to the absolute limit. Since the cars aren’t as powerful, they’ll take even more risks in the corners to avoid braking and carry as much speed as possible.
Deal. I will keep that in mind although I know the answer alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Don't you remember Tänak in 2014 ERC Rally Estonia, where he basically drove the sht out of that R5 Fiesta? I mean it was a spectacle to watch him. And those cars are much slower than today's Rally2 cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Such a different times. Back then we didn’t have no idea about 2017 generation cars and current cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
I’ve been to every rally Finland since 2015 and also every rally Estonia and the difference is huge with rally2.
Of course you will get used to it in the end but the drop will be huge in the beginning.
Your video from Finland 2016 shows enough. The WRC cars then were plenty exciting and Meeke set the record times.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
WRC27 & Rally2 Cars wont be much different to those cars from 10 years ago.
https://youtu.be/Q42jT7AsNFE?si=QoIB7V2q98Lw4ts3
Remember that there will be no better cars to compare with, 2026 Rally1 cars will be gone, and the pace will be set with Rally2/WRC27 cars so the spectacle will be there. Also I think many of those non-regular or local drivers could actually be in the mix if the performance will be close. The only thing that stopping them could be manufacturers/tuners bring them worse cars (non-evolution), but that is higely unprofessional. Also I think that if those tho cars would be similar in performance, one thong is clear, Rally2 could be way more reliable from start, so we could expect more or less Rally2's on the top of leaderboard (I'm not worried about Toyo-tank)
I really really hope I am wrong, but I don't expect any more drivers in the mix. The current Rally1 drivers are (for the most part) in Rally1 for a reason. They will continue to be the best even in Rally2 machinery.
Additionally the factor money cannot be understated. You cannot compete with toyota as a private team or individual. They will optimize every screw in the car if need be.
What should get better though is new drivers adapting better to Rally1. The jump from Rally2 to 1 was just huge
Wrong guy, that's my video. That 2nd spot i filmed last year also, still quite a difference to rally2, you can feel the power being quite a bit higher, time difference maybe not so big. And the sound is so much better in the WRCQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I am afraid that at least half of the current Rally1 drivers will have problems to be in top 5 or top 10 with Rally2 cars. And I am afraid that some of the older drivers will end their careers...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
Probably Neuville the next one as Hyundai will leave no matter what. Abiteboul already decided that, and he will have excuse now more than ever. Wonder what will bosses do when they will see that WEC is harder, and that bloke doesn't have a clue what he is doing.
you mean like suninen, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Back when loeb and ogier started, the jump was from fwd s1600 or kitcar to wrc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
I would say the jump is a lot easier nowadays, the driving style between rc2 and rc1 is similar and the speed difference quite small.
Some guys in Rally2 cars are going to set very quick times on Fridays on gravel rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
Ah sorry, got you guys confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
But I always remembered this video and how exciting it was with the 2011-16 cars, before all the extra aero and power of the next generations.
I'm sure the latest Rally2 cars will be of similar speed and they could easily be allowed to make a bit more power and noise.
Facelifted Toyota WRC27 in Spain
https://xcancel.com/RallyeSport/stat...958320713733#m
Photos by Alpha Racing Photography
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HHAXBkpb...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HHAXBkpb...pg&name=medium
well, looks like Yaris, doesn´t it?
Slightly less ugly than before
Rear end quite similar to the C-HR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Toyota are just trying out things and probably having a laugh at people's attempts to identify the car.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HHApUMla...g&name=900x900Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferranis
Btw, new GR Yaris facelift to compare
https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.n...aw&oe=69F6B7FC
https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.n..._A&oe=69F6DD34
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...pen-/10816366/
Great article from M-Sport regarding their future. It clears what their plan is and it is they will be there in one form or another.
To be honest this is a typical M-Sport interview that can be summarized with: "We don't know either what will happen".Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
The most concrete is "As for next year, M-Sport confirmed that there are no plans to further upgrade its Fiesta Rally2 car, which will be at the centre of any prospective WRC programme next year.".
The remaining interview is: "Year, somehow, potentially, we will stay with some kind of car"
They will be in WRC one way or another, either with a Manufacturer or alone. Rally is their core business and their background with the Rally1 Puma spaceframe chassis will make them the perfect Constructor.