It's winter, rescue vehicles should have the correct tires/chains. How is organising this rally different from organising Monte?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
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It's winter, rescue vehicles should have the correct tires/chains. How is organising this rally different from organising Monte?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I said it already, that you are one line grumpy idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex009
At this point you know pretty nothing on why it was cancelled. All we know is that in last 2 stages we got 3 WRC crashes, 1 of which could have ended really bad.
Cancelling stages due to weather being too bad has been done forever (remember Portugal 1998 or so?). Corsica multiple times as well in last 20 years.
This is not an off-road survival competition.
Monte has been held for over a century. Monza organizers for sure never organized a snow event. Sad but when FIA selected Monza as a WRC round they had to consider the risk connected with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrial
Yes, gentelmens, it's easy to throw comments to forum with hot head, but let's get the actual argumentation first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Of course it does not change anything for Elfyn anymore and it's not favoring Lappi at all.
This is start of December in Italy, mostly below 800 meters. Not normal weather there at all, I lived in that area for some time and talked to locals today.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrial
Monte is higher up in mountains and has been run like that for 50 years or so.
What would they do if someone living there got a heart attack? Wait till spring to come and get them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The rescue vehicles should have the best tyres of them all here.
lol some ridiculous statements from some users here
but ill keep reading and eating my popcorn
Looking at the webcam in the middle of SS12 at about 1200m they seem to get snow every yearQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
https://www.windy.com/nb/-Nettkamera...45.787,7.866,8
Exactly. Nothing unusual to have snow there.
if there is one thing i could change in the world today
i would have cancelled SS11 instead :)
- that camera is right next to the highest point of the rally (1270 m, highest point is just shy of 1350), whole 2 previous SS are a lot lowerQuote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
- 5.12.
- normal approach for everyone is summer tires and chains
- "snow" is one thing, snow staying on the road in thick layer is something else
It was mentioned before that this is first time in 15 years they got snow down in Monza at all.
Anyway we still don't know why it was cancelled.
I think we had one stage canceled in Australia 2017 because of heavy rain which would have prevented ambulances getting on/off the scene. It's not just the fact that there's snow, it's the wet snow and heavy snowfall which makes the conditions difficult for most vehicles. Better be safe than sorry.
As for canceling SS10 after road being blocked and you saying rallying is now ridiculous...in the past decades the drivers who had to stop or slow down for a crashed car on the road never got any time refunds, so I think it's more fair this way. And like someone guessed, they didn't have the option to wait for a tow truck get Veiby out and restart the stage because TV stage was next.
Also someone said we're getting red flags and canceled stages because the rally is organized by a motor circuit, just go back and see we've had red flags and canceled stages before...remember when Lappi's car burned in Mexico? Yes, the next stage was canceled because the only firetruck from the next stage was putting out the fire. Remember in Mexico 2019 when Lappi went half off the road? Red flag. Monte Carlo 2017 Sunday or 2019 Friday? Catalunya 2018? Circuit racing organizers? Also remember that the same FIA officials are organizing every event, it's not the locals who make the decisions. Finally, when Veiby pressed the SOS button in the car, that triggered the red flag automatically.
No fly weather be even on SS10 and SS11. So why they wouldn't canceled on a safety ground?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Cuz cancellation of SS12 it's not a safety reasons I guess
@EsapekkaLappi
Bugger, we would have good snow tires on board !
#ACIRallyMonza #WRC #L4PPI
M-Sport
@MSportLtd
· 23m
Information source SS12 cancelled #WRC #MSPORTERS
If rallies would be over 500km, we wouldnt mind couple of stage cancellations.
No-fly weather is normal thing for quarter of WRC stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKS
Acropolis 2015 ERC last day 2nd loop was also cancelled for safety reasons due to heavy rainfall...
When the safety vehicles cannot approach fast, there is no point to risk lives for sport!
If your kid had an exit there and the ambulance cannot reach the spot in time then you would say why the f...k you did not cancel the damn stage... enough of that please...
Gutted for Elfyn really. Had he made it a couple of more kilometres more, it would have been safe. Need to check Tänak's onboard from the corner to see how he managed that
Well, if the reason is rescuevehicles cant make it, then it is understandable. But still big shame that one proper stage with challenging conditions is cancelled. If the rally was long it wouldnt make such a difference, but here it really is a big hit.
I totally agree that conditions are not nice. But this is, or should be, WRC. And I don't get that cancellation, if it was due snow, since everyone has known at least a week ago that there is a big big possibility for this kind of conditions. Safety is also important, but if the safety is the only point then we should consider cancelling this sport. Maybe there is something else on background, and probably there is, but this we will never find out.
Yeah, and especially these short COVID-editions suffer exceptionally much from canceled stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
BTW this is also one reason not to have marathon stages anymore. When you have to cancel one long stage (because of situation like this or stupid spectators etc), it's a bigger percentage of the whole rally
COVID-19, maybe you heard about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by tpt010
I am quite sure the 3 WRC crashes in two stages before played a role as well.
This of Greensmith was posted before and as said before if the armco got trough....
https://www.facebook.com/Rallysuppor...0291346683372/
THIS! Or even 400km. The ever decreasing length of rallies is a disaster when combined with the ever increasing risk of stage cancelations. Even 300km events are too short to lose stages... It's embarrassing, but luckily the WRC bubble lost perspective on shame years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
EDIT: Caveat to that being, I appreciate the Covid chaos factor this year. But it's not just this year and things will probably only get worse, because much of the organisational side of rallying loves to take the easy option nowadays.
Maybe we should get some statistics on how many stages were cancelled every year :) I don't think it has increased that much in the latest yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
The rescue crews first and formost are not part of the rally organization, FIA or Italian ASN. If they say they can't go, for you it simply means they can't. What do you want to do with that? I can tell you that. Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Number or length of those stages?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Btw, Scandola just set new fastest time on SS11 by 12.2 secs :D
As all the talk is about cancelations, then we are 12,58km away from giving out half the points.
If it got 1 deg warmer then combined with rain and cars cleaning the road it's possible he had no snow at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Essaj
- Number of all stages canceled per yearQuote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
- Percentage of canceled stages per all stages run that year
(however I think red flagged stages with notional times for rest of the cars don't count as cancelled in your books)
As you know, there used to be far more stages, so inevitable there were more stages that could be cancelled. Though as a percentage of an event's SS length, less would have been lost in the past. So it'd be interesting to know on percentage terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
What I mean by increasing risk of cancellations, is that with live coverage, more information from the stages (organisational and spectator via social media), plus SOS from cars, combined with modern liability issues, it's never been easier to justify cancelling stages. It's a slippery slope though.
wrc is becoming more and more joke. In Sweden we cancel stages because there is NO snow and in Monza because there IS snow(and everybody knew it)
Well, raw data as follows, I can't check it just now:Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Kausi count(*) stages worth of sum(ek.Pituus) kilometers
1973 37 stages worth of 358.42 kilometers
1974 11 stages worth of 36.53 kilometers
1975 8 stages worth of 107.40 kilometers
1976 8 stages worth of 33.30 kilometers
1977 15 stages worth of 241.27 kilometers
1978 9 stages worth of 157.20 kilometers
1979 25 stages worth of 208.60 kilometers
1980 11 stages worth of 101.52 kilometers
1981 7 stages worth of 70.10 kilometers
1982 13 stages worth of 126.73 kilometers
1983 13 stages worth of 142.21 kilometers
1984 8 stages worth of 134.00 kilometers
1985 10 stages worth of 115.43 kilometers
1986 22 stages worth of 78.84 kilometers
1987 13 stages worth of 58.05 kilometers
1988 8 stages worth of 89.02 kilometers
1989 1 stages worth of 16.80 kilometers
1990 5 stages worth of 89.32 kilometers
1991 7 stages worth of 89.01 kilometers
1992 13 stages worth of 315.69 kilometers
1993 2 stages worth of 14.08 kilometers
1994 2 stages worth of 0.00 kilometers
1995 5 stages worth of 77.78 kilometers
1996 8 stages worth of 410.67 kilometers
1997 5 stages worth of 34.87 kilometers
1998 4 stages worth of 71.09 kilometers
1999 6 stages worth of 143.40 kilometers
2000 5 stages worth of 103.35 kilometers
2001 11 stages worth of 326.35 kilometers
2002 11 stages worth of 297.14 kilometers
2003 4 stages worth of 89.22 kilometers
2004 4 stages worth of 110.67 kilometers
2005 4 stages worth of 79.42 kilometers
2006 6 stages worth of 114.36 kilometers
2007 8 stages worth of 140.20 kilometers
2008 8 stages worth of 93.86 kilometers
2009 6 stages worth of 92.14 kilometers
2010 5 stages worth of 94.69 kilometers
2011 6 stages worth of 73.48 kilometers
2012 6 stages worth of 102.92 kilometers
2013 3 stages worth of 83.57 kilometers
2014 5 stages worth of 76.69 kilometers
2015 5 stages worth of 152.54 kilometers
2016 9 stages worth of 104.73 kilometers
2017 8 stages worth of 170.25 kilometers
2018 1 stages worth of 14.12 kilometers
2019 7 stages worth of 90.04 kilometers
2020 7 stages worth of 141.67 kilometers
EDIT: Quickly verified last two seasons and it checks out...
Better drive RMC in the summer then...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Everyone loves Col de Turini with snow, as far as I know.
Pretty much nothing has been normal in 2020 (Mexico stages cancelled due to COVID, this "emergency" rally set up in 3 months and taking place pretty much just a few days after lifted curfew in Lombardy). On top of that you got least snow in 20+ years.
If you look at years until then there is no clear trend imo. Though off course as percentage of total kms it maybe increases a bit.
What definitely changed is that now with ALLlive and all people at stages having a mobile phone you get many more immediately complaining. Not many did that if all you could do from home was watch numbers on a pc screen.
I think it's too easy to stay at home and type something on your keyboard without thinking. The organisers' job is hard with all the requirements for safety and TV, not to mention the context this year. In 2020 you need to put safety first and think of the whole rally. You cannot afford someone (maybe from lower categories) going off and having serious problems. WRC round are shorter than ever and guess what they're not going to get any longer, enjoy what you have.
Exactly this, an unrealistic expectation, i think we are all lucky to be able to see this all happening live, 25 years ago we'd just read the result in the newspaper...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Marathon stages are not problem (this cancelled stage had only 22 kms, so nothing special). Problem is that total mileage of rallies is lower and lower and instead of rally it is going closer to rallysprints...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
So high numbers will only have run today one stage (11) if it ends ok, at the moment I think it's running, plus the monza final stage, I think there won't be many happy italian competitors with the situation at all today
That's the problem and you're probably right, suits them for events to get ever shorter, though nobody has to enjoy that fact. Requiring events to be at least 350km, preferably all around 400km, is hardly a massive leap and would provide for at least some contingency/legitimacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
I'm not offending them by going as far as to insult the precious cloverleaf format... :D