And some recent drivers might be worthy as well. Markko Martin maybe? Or Latvala (being the winningest non-champion)or Hirvonen?
(I say this as a younger fan, of course without downplaying the legends you mentioned)
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Latvala in any hall of fame would make it a joke, although if they include all the champions and no one else, it is a joke anyway.
Everyone has its own opinion about who should be in that list...
That list cannot contain everyone, some should stay out.
Cheers Norm... I didn’t know much about Allen. Googled mr maximum attack last night and saw who it was.
Yeah, I agree with Mouton... she 100% should have been included and Toivenen too. Bit strange they’ve just included champions, when so many others left a mark in the sport.
Alen and Munari won the drivers FIA cup before it had a World Championship value.
Drivers with most wins but no championship title:
Alen 19
Latvala 18
Hirvonen 15
(the rest have considerably less wins. Neuville would be next with 9)
drivers title runner-ups without championship title:
Frequelin (1981)
Mouton (1982)
Alen (1986, 1988)
Fiorio (1989)
Delecour (1993)
Hirvonen (2008, 2009, 2011, 2012)
Latvala (2010, 2014, 2015)
Neuville (2013, 2016, 2017, 2018)
I'm a rally newbie too and I'd never heard it. My first thought was "I'm a pretty big Meeke fan, but surely he hasn't earned hall of fame yet". Then I checked whether Colin McRae was on the list.
Well, I guess I'm ashamed.
Nothing to be ashamed of, if some people think you should only follow rallying if you know the complete history of it, it's there problem, not yours.
I've been a fan of rallying since I was about 5 years old, Markku was my favourite driver growing up (and yes, I am aware I spelt his name wrong earlier, but spell check on my phone decided he should be called marijuana Allen, not Markku Alen . . And yes, I know the e should have a hat on but my phone won't do it)
It still doesn't make it a World Championship. Just as WRC2 isn't a world championship. And so weren't FIA Ladies Cup and FIA Group N Cup. But what about Kenneth Eriksson, he's a Group A World Champion from 1986?
However, I agree that Alen should have been invited, even if as the only non-champion.
It's pre 1979 cup. Before 1973 there weren't even manufacturer's championships.
Rallying was a different sport back then. It was a competition for the best car. Teams didn't have drivers doing full WRC seasons, instead selecting the best events they could win in and the best specialist drivers for the job. Meanwhile, drivers would participate in other series and/or special events like London-Mexico in addition to doing a few WRC rallies, unlike now where it's rare if a WRC driver does an ERC event for example. No one was concentrating on getting the highest overall points because there was no proper title for it. In that sense, it was a secondary trophy. In fact, although the drivers title started in 1979, it remained in the old way for quite long with usually only 3-4 drivers doing enough WRC events to be considered title contenders. It wasn't until the WRC car era that we started having all teams and all drivers taking part in all events for a proper title fight between 10 drivers.
Looks like they've taken the easy way and only included world champions (same goes for their list in F1 - only champions except James Hunt for some reason apparently). Nothing wrong with that, to become champion it takes some serious talent and dedication. But take nothing away from drivers like Alen, Hirvonen and Märtin who all contributed to battles in the championship. FIA could have made the Hall of Fame much more interesting.
i just took a little nap and woke up with great news.
Estonian government will fund Rally Estonia with 1 million euros and this means this years Rally Estonia will be WRC candidate/test event.
With Japan and Kenya set to be added for 2020 and talks of Croatia and Poland again, it will be a tough job for Estonia. Best of luck!
Even in wrc car era, it was a good five or so years before there were at least ten drivers doing the full season. Which either devalues the championship titles of the likes of sainz, kankkunen, McRae et al, or makes Alens drivers cup title just as relevant as the world champions that succeeded him.
Depends if your cup is half empty, or half full.
Yep, Alen and Munari were fantastic drivers but to consider them as WRC drivers champs would be a mistake. Not only because the FIA International Cup wasn’t properly named as World Championship but mostly because it also included ERC rallys and some special events, besides WRC rallys. Between those special events the most peculiar was the ‘Giro d’Italia’, a mix rally/racing event that allowed rally crews to be replaced by a racing driver on the racing circuit runs!
To use the official WRC Drivers Championship status as the main standard to choose wall of fame drivers (and codrivers) makes sense, but it’s totally fair to say that many others (some already named here) should also have a place in it. Actually a small wall in FIA headquarters (apparently only visitable by request) seems too short attending Rallysport and WRC fabulous heritage; to build a proper Rally Museum would be the right step to honour all those (drivers, codrivers, manus, organizers, etc) that helped the sport growing through time.
Yesterday ceremony highlights: https://youtu.be/pjLQBERLWR4
There was a news in December(?) that Ciesla is planning something "Monza Rally show" like in Estonia this summer, with all the manufactures present.
Tänak at the top, TGR operations, huge popularity of rally and new cars+ neighbours...who knows, how the winds blow...
Being a fan doesn't mean you have to have huge knowledge of the history from before a person became a fan.
With that being said, you two seem to have an on-going beef with each other, why not just put put the respective names on the ignore list and get on with the day.
WRC all time Stage wins:
1. Loeb, Sebastien FR 915
2. Alen, Markku FI 822
3. Sainz, Carlos ES 756
4. Kankkunen, Juha FI 700
5. Mikkola, Hannu FI 654
6. Auriol, Didier FR 554
7. Gronholm, Marcus FI 542
= Vatanen, Ari FI 542
9. Ogier, Sebastien FR 539
10. Latvala, Jari-Matti FI 517
11. Blomqvist, Stig SE 486
12. McRae, Colin GB 477
13. Solberg, Petter NO 457
14. Rohrl, Walter DE 439
15. Biasion, Massimo IT 373
16. Makinen, Tommi FI 362
17.Waldegard, Bjorn SE 290
18. Burns, Richard GB 277
19. Hirvonen, Mikko FI 260
20. Salonen, Timo FI 257
Yes, rallies are different nowadays, but on the other hand juwra.com says "Stage wins before 1978 are not complete". I guess Alen had quite a few stage wins also before 1978 ;) Drivers with a lot of stage wins might have a habit to attack
Trust me, it's not a forum thing. Alen was known for his always-flat-out style, which during the heyday of ridiculously long rallies in the 70's and 80's wasn't that common approach. That made Markku so popular among the rally fans worldwide, but also cost him dearly; 1000 Lakes 1986 or RAC 1987 probably being the best examples of rallies where he should have just taken it easy instead of pushing like there's no tomorrow.
It's true that the moniker wasn't used as widely during his active years as it has been afterwards. In 2001, when Markku drove Rally Finland for one last time, the text on the back of his Focus WRC read "The original maximum attack".
Attachment 1716
And another reason why he's still so popular (although this only concerns the Finnish speaking rally fans) must be the wonderful interviews he gave. It's hard to put in words, but there's something very unique and charismatic in his way of being dead serious, but still with a shade of humor.
I only saw him few times in action in the early 90's, yet he's my biggest hero in rallying.
edit. Has nothing to do with anything, but actually I've seen Markku's father quite many times. He used to attend the same ice hockey games I did with my father. Ofcourse I didn't recognize him at the time, but my dad did.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/2013080217325788
Here Markku explains that in Portugal they asked how fast he is driving and with his limited English he tried to say flat out and said instead "maximum attack". I think that term also referred to Alen's capability and desire to attack right from the very beginning of the rally. In the age of long rallies, most drivers would take it easy for a day or two, watching how fast the others go and how many retire, but Markku attacked from the first kilometres.
Also if you look up Alén in Wikipedia, it's right up there, sourced from The Complete Book of the World Rally Championship by Henry Hope Frost and John Davenport, not your average forum posters.