The Ferrari thread !

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28th July 2010, 03:57
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by markabilly

and what mr. morally justice here don't get is that these were rules NOW, and not back then, not even in Austria in 2002

and Luca himself says.....they done it, so what ? we lie and then when everyone but a few of the blind, see right through it, then I say, enough of the hypocrisy, we do things as we have always done (ie team orders) and we do not care for your agruments.

Ferrari fans deserve better than a cheap, lieing cheater who is no different than Flavio, being at Ferrari.

So you are a rules and regulations wallah.

You see, theres the rub. I think culture has a lot to do with this. I am born and raised in Israel where rules and regulations are really guidelines - as it is in the rest of the mid-east.

Perhaps Luca is a an Israeli in disguise?

:D
28th July 2010, 04:03
Saint Devote

Massa to Renault in 2011 as the resentment builds and he is finally booted by the Scuderia along with Rob Smedley?

If the titles are settled with a grand prix or so to go - perhaps Jules Bianchi can be drafted in for a taste of f1 by the end of 2010?

Just a thought!
28th July 2010, 04:06
markabilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

So you are a rules and regulations wallah.

You see, theres the rub. I think culture has a lot to do with this. I am born and raised in Israel where rules and regulations are really guidelines - as it is in the rest of the mid-east.

Perhaps Luca is a an Israeli in disguise?

:D

funny, all those who are jewish that I have been around, are not cheap lieing cheaters, and certainly would not discuss a game involving rules agreed to by all of the participants, as though they were discussing the morality of guards in nazi concentration camps, and for me that is all the difference in the world.

For that reason, you and any real ferrari fans should be ashamed of Luca
28th July 2010, 07:28
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Massa to Renault in 2011 as the resentment builds and he is finally booted by the Scuderia along with Rob Smedley?

If the titles are settled with a grand prix or so to go - perhaps Jules Bianchi can be drafted in for a taste of f1 by the end of 2010?

Just a thought!

Who knows what will happen? Maybe life will be cruel to Fisi and he will be teammate to Alonso again!
28th July 2010, 08:53
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Please state specifically when an order was given!

You cannot, as there was no instruction.

You can keep telling yourself there was, but nobody heard it. None of the millions of viewers heard anything other than information.

Good luck in a courtroom with that!

You would lose.

Ferrari went before the only courtroom that matters where F1 is concerned and this was the result.
28th July 2010, 09:06
wmcot

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Its funny how every media outlet, millions of fans, the FIA, and several current drivers have all jumped to the same conclusion though isn't it?

You mean like looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? No proof was ever found there either despite many nations assuming they were there.
28th July 2010, 09:09
wmcot

Quote:

Originally Posted by markabilly

Ferrari fans deserve better than a cheap, lieing cheater who is no different than Flavio, being at Ferrari.

Yeah, he should be with the other ones at McLaren, Red Bull and Brawn/Mercedes! ;)
28th July 2010, 09:11
wmcot

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Its not just about what was said my friend. Its about analysing the whole situation and series of events. If I walk up to you with 4 days worth of beard growth and tell you that I am a woman and then wink as I say it, what does that suggest?

Are you my wife?
28th July 2010, 14:12
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Ferrari went before the only courtroom that matters where F1 is concerned and this was the result.

This is not the only courtroom that matters in F1.

The FIA learned this with Briatore.

A court has the power that the FIA does not, and FIA will need more evidence than supposition to be certain it will not be taken to court.

This is why you, like the FIA, need more proof before the WMSC before a judgement of guilt can be made.

Also, the WMSC can overturn a verdict of the steward. Do not forget this. Ferrari have not, i think.

It surprises me more people are not realistic to this, or to what the implication to FIA of a court case brought against them for decision made with no firm evidence would do.
28th July 2010, 14:17
Dave B

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out then.

In the blue corner you've got the race stewards, the FIA, millions of fans, and the wording of the regulations.

In the red corner you've got Alonso, Ferrari's senior management, and a handful of dyed-in-the-wool fans who can't comprehend that their beloved team is capable of doing anything wrong.

September 10th will be mighty interesting, that's for certain :D
28th July 2010, 14:17
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Its not just about what was said my friend. Its about analysing the whole situation and series of events. If I walk up to you with 4 days worth of beard growth and tell you that I am a woman and then wink as I say it, what does that suggest? I'm either pulling your leg or you're going to have to pull my pants off to prove that I'm lying or take my word for it with a head full of doubts.. Body language.. ;)

What you say is that I need to provide the proof that you are a man, yes? Or be in doubt?

I agree with this.

But I cannot provide the proof, so you may be a woman.
28th July 2010, 14:19
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out then.

In the blue corner you've got the race stewards, the FIA, millions of fans, and the wording of the regulations.

In the red corner you've got Alonso, Ferrari's senior management, and a handful of dyed-in-the-wool fans who can't comprehend that their beloved team is capable of doing anything wrong.

September 10th will be mighty interesting, that's for certain :D

The wording of the regulations are not on your side.
28th July 2010, 14:25
Dave B

Well as I say let's wait and see. Any pretence that this is a meaningful debate evaporated many pages ago, and I have no desire to get into an argument.
28th July 2010, 14:28
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

...It surprises me more people are not realistic to this, or to what the implication to FIA of a court case brought against them for decision made with no firm evidence would do.

The FIA is the law where F1 is concerned, until a participant decides to go outside of the sport. Are you suggesting that Ferrari may resort to this option? The absence of an appeal, and acceptance of the penalty, suggests they will not. That also suggests that it is unlikely that the WMSC will overturn one or both of the charges against Ferrari.

It may be your opinion that there was no firm evidence, but in the view of those who matter there was sufficient evidence, but as Dave says let's wait and see what the WMSC have to say.
28th July 2010, 14:43
pino

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

...and a handful of dyed-in-the-wool fans who can't comprehend that their beloved team is capable of doing anything wrong.

I never said Ferrari cannot do anything wrong, I've just said that what Ferrari did was not different from what other teams did... even this year.
28th July 2010, 14:56
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

The FIA is the law where F1 is concerned, until a participant decides to go outside of the sport. Are you suggesting that Ferrari may resort to this option?

Yes.

This is, for me, precisely why the Scuderia did not appeal to the stewards. They wait for the WMSC to realise the implication of a verdict based on supposition only.
28th July 2010, 16:16
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmcot

You mean like looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? No proof was ever found there either despite many nations assuming they were there.

Please don't insult our intelligence.
29th July 2010, 03:26
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

I hope you are right. Massa deserves alot better.

Massa has never been mistreated by Ferrari. It was obvious after 25 laps or so that Alonso was quicker and being held up.

Everytime Alonso tried to go by the door was closed in no uncertain terms by Massa.

Alonso radioed to his pit that it was "ridiculous", and why? Because he refrained from getting into a tangle. Alonso did not want to end up colliding with Massa.

Nobody he stopped Massa - he has just not kept up with Alonso - as expected.

And he will not keep pace with Kubica either.

My post referred to his apparent indignation and self-pity and sulking that if he so upset - well then, he is free to leave Ferrari - IMMEDIATELY. Clearly the act that Massa put on was one out of petulance because to date, Massa will be racing in Hungary in a Ferrari on Sunday.

What Massa says and what Massa does is obviously not the same. Its time for Luca to inform Massa that being a legend in his own mind and reality is not the same thing.
29th July 2010, 03:32
Saint Devote

WMSC is a kangaroo court and should they rule severely against Ferrari, then as did Briatore, justice should be sought in the French courts.
29th July 2010, 06:02
wmcot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

In the red corner you've got Alonso, Ferrari's senior management, and a handful of dyed-in-the-wool fans who can't comprehend that their beloved team is capable of doing anything wrong.

You forgot to mention a lot of corporate sponsors with billions invested in the team! Money is a magnet in the balance scales of F1 "justice."
29th July 2010, 06:46
Roamy

so they screw with Ferrari and Ferrari takes a few years off F1
Who is the loser???
Fans and MopHead and Teams

Like Brawn said "Give It Up"
29th July 2010, 09:49
SGWilko

The only good thing possibly to come of this situation is the abolition of the team orders rule, or the insertion of a 'don't take your paying public for fools and be blatant about it' clause to the rule currently in place.

After all, Ferrari getting back in the hunt adds another dimension to an otherwise excellent season, and banning or suspending them removes that aspect.

They have had the fine, tweak or remove the rule, and move on.

I didn't like the way the swap was made, and the way Massa was dumped on, but this is F1!
29th July 2010, 09:59
Dave B

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

They have had the fine, tweak or remove the rule, and move on.

You can't change the rule mid-season, that's unfair on the other teams who have conducted themselves properly.

Let's say the rule didn't exist at the start of the season: what would be to stop (say) Red Bull writing a #2 clause into Webber's contract and racing accordingly. Vettel (in this example) may have had a decent lead in the championship.

Hypothetical of course, but you can't change the rules halfway just becuase they don't happen to suit one team.

Certainly the rule needs looking at, but any changes should be for 2011 and beyond.
29th July 2010, 10:02
donKey jote

You can't change the rules?
OK, clarify them then :)
29th July 2010, 10:43
Mia 01

How is the engine situation in ferrari now. Theres nine races left, Monza and Spa is very demanding on engines.
29th July 2010, 10:44
donKey jote

bad... unless they find some loophole to give Alonso Massa's engines too :p
29th July 2010, 15:53
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

You can't change the rule mid-season, that's unfair on the other teams who have conducted themselves properly.

No team in F1 conducts itself properly. They all try and screw each other and the rules/system every chance they get. There are no gentlemen in F1, just winners and losers. F1 is big business now, and I know very well how big business works.
31st July 2010, 10:33
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Massa to Renault in 2011 as the resentment builds and he is finally booted by the Scuderia along with Rob Smedley?

Hopefully!
31st July 2010, 10:35
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmcot

You forgot to mention a lot of corporate sponsors with billions invested in the team! Money is a magnet in the balance scales of F1 "justice."

And who wants to be associated with cheaters? Certainly not the corporate sponsors, just look how they left Renault withing a few days.
31st July 2010, 12:35
Dave B

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s
31st July 2010, 13:39
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s

You are right. I hope this hits Santander though, but banks aren't known for very high ethical standards either. :\
31st July 2010, 15:01
markabilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s

I am sure that Todt (who masterminded this deal with Marlboro) and Luca will both be giving that money back

But along will come the Saint Devetoed, and tells us, that it is natural law that mandates the manifest destiny of Ferrari and they need not obey such unjust regulations, and neither should their associates when it gets in the way of the law of revenue...err..opps I mean natural justice

Besides why deny the pleasures and benefits of a good fag to the young...

I mean that as the brits say it, as in cigarette
31st July 2010, 21:05
pallone col bracciale

Another good performance today.

No chance of matching Red Bulls, but important to be there to pick up pieces tomorrow, God willing.
31st July 2010, 21:06
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s

Did you complian when they paid for Ron Dennis?
1st August 2010, 03:29
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Ferrari's principal sponsor market cigarettes to children in developing nations, I hardly think this registers on their ethical barometer :s

That's really interesting information. Do you have a link you would share with us? I can't wait to get really detailed information about this.
1st August 2010, 03:35
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

No team in F1 conducts itself properly. They all try and screw each other and the rules/system every chance they get. There are no gentlemen in F1, just winners and losers. F1 is big business now, and I know very well how big business works.

Finally some words of wisdom. I'll definetly drink to that. A nice RED would do.
1st August 2010, 04:02
Roamy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

Finally some words of wisdom. I'll definetly drink to that. A nice RED would do.

try benziger tribute
1st August 2010, 09:23
Dave B

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

That's really interesting information. Do you have a link you would share with us? I can't wait to get really detailed information about this.

Pretty common knowledge, but three seconds on Google found this example:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2022928.ece

or this:

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/reports/philipmorris/

In the interests of balance, they're not unique in this. BAT financed a team I happenned to support, so any accusations that I'm posting this out of anti-Ferrari bias are - as usual - without foundation.
14th August 2010, 17:40
Mia 01

The engine situation? FA is out.
17th August 2010, 09:05
Mia 01

I´m a bit sorry for my earlier remark, Seb is in the same boat as Fernando.

http://www.vivaf1.com/reliability.php

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