The Ferrari thread !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shalafi

At least he WAS best on his day.. still not sure that accident havent effect his ability....

---

Massa's issue I believe is a confidence thing - it's in the mind.

HE has grown in confidence, and being able to beat Kimi on occasion he grew as a driver.

The accident knocked that confidence, and when he finally shows signs of regaining the confidence, his team stamp on it. :down:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pino

Great job so far, now let's not spoil everything in the race with wrong strategy and poor performance by drivers :s

---

Can you see into the future Pino? Clearly you can!!! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

The accident knocked that confidence, and when he finally shows signs of regaining the confidence, his team stamp on it. :down:

---

In the words of the infamous Gene Hunt: "Anything happens to this motor, I'll come 'round your houses and stamp on all your toys. Got it?" :p :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

In the words of the infamous Gene Hunt: "Anything happens to this motor, I'll come 'round your houses and stamp on all your toys. Got it?" :p :

---

How topical - currently on series 2 of LOM. Very good it is too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

You can believe what you want, but I don't consider myself to be that naive and with the post race interviews with Felipe confirming our suspicions, I'll leave it at that. :)

---

Felipes post race comments confirmed nothing, except that he had taken the decision.

You have no proof. There was no order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Felipes post race comments confirmed nothing, except that he had taken the decision.

You have no proof. There was no order.

---

Luca gave the proof today, it was team orders and he doesn't care what others think about it.

What else are you going to deny now?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Luca gave the proof today, it was team orders and he doesn't care what others think about it.

What else are you going to deny now?!

---

watch, it will switch from denial to full on support of LdM and that it was always correct, etc, etc,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Felipes post race comments confirmed nothing, except that he had taken the decision.

You have no proof. There was no order.

---

:rotflmao:

Oh how much fun the docs would have with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Luca gave the proof today, it was team orders and he doesn't care what others think about it.

What else are you going to deny now?!

---

Please show the proof that Luca confirms that team orders were given.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85587

He does not expressly state anywhere that Ferrari have used team orders in Germany.

So, where is your proof?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Please show the proof that Luca confirms that team orders were given.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85587

He does not expressly state anywhere that Ferrari have used team orders in Germany.

So, where is your proof?

---

I appreciate that English may not be your first language so I will translate into clearer words.

Quote:

---

"I simply reaffirm what I have always maintained, which is that our drivers are very well aware, and it is something they have to stick to, that if one races for Ferrari, then the interests of the team come before those of the individual.

---

They are racing under the teams direction and not their own

Quote:

---

"In any case, these things have happened since the days of Nuvolari and I experienced it myself when I was Sporting Director, in the days of Niki Lauda and not just then."

---

This is in response to the subject of team orders.

So, big white chief comes out and confirms the drivers race for the team, not themselves and it's always been the same.

I am sure the hard of understanding will quite happily claim he hasn't come out and said "Massa was ordered to move over" but if you are the sort interested in Polemics rather than debate, then I am wasting my time trying to communicate with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

I appreciate that English may not be your first language so I will translate into clearer words.



They are racing under the teams direction and not their own



This is in response to the subject of team orders.

So, big white chief comes out and confirms the drivers race for the team, not themselves and it's always been the same.

I am sure the hard of understanding will quite happily claim he hasn't come out and said "Massa was ordered to move over" but if you are the sort interested in Polemics rather than debate, then I am wasting my time trying to communicate with you.

---

Grazie Mille.

Clearly he has not stated anything about team orders being directly used. Clearly he has said that Ferrari drivers race knowig that the Ferrari teams interests come before their own personal interests.

There is a clear difference between this and him stating that it a team order was given.

So, thank you.

There is no proof.

Without this, there can be no conviction and innocence is the only verdict a fair person can give.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Without this, there can be no conviction and innocence is the only verdict a fair person can give.

---

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Millions of viewers know exactly what they saw, and the stewards have found Ferrari guilty of breaching the team orders rule and bringing the sport into disrepute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Millions of viewers know exactly what they saw, and the stewards have found Ferrari guilty of breaching the team orders rule and bringing the sport into disrepute.

---

Precisely.

I can't see why some Ferrari fans are defending this. It reflects badly on the team and surely it's better to have 2 drivers fully committed and incentivized than one driver knowing he's going to be a lap dog.

What is more shocking is the refusal of Ferrari management to step back from the confrontation and diffuse the s**t storm. It's almost like they are daring the FIA to act???

The Stewards gave them the maximum fine they could and referred the matter to the WMSC to finish. I would think that Ferrari would want to keep their nose clean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Millions of viewers know exactly what they saw, and the stewards have found Ferrari guilty of breaching the team orders rule and bringing the sport into disrepute.

---

Please state specifically when an order was given!

You cannot, as there was no instruction.

You can keep telling yourself there was, but nobody heard it. None of the millions of viewers heard anything other than information.

Good luck in a courtroom with that!

You would lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Please state specifically when an order was given!

You cannot, as there was no instruction.

You can keep telling yourself there was, but nobody heard it. None of the millions of viewers heard anything other than information.

Good luck in a courtroom with that!

You would lose.

---

It isn't a court of Law..... Yet!

However, they have already been judged and found guilty. If they believed they were innocent, they would appeal instead of just accepting it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Without this, there can be no conviction and innocence is the only verdict a fair person can give.

---

Maybe that's why Berlusconi and many others are still free to do what they please. :\

To defend the undefendable takes heroes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe that's why Berlusconi and many others are still free to do what they please. :\

---

What Berlusconi has to do with this thread ???

An Italian who thinks he's above the law? No, I've no idea what he's got to do with this thread... :p

I must admit that the Romans has a great hertigate, they layed the ground to the modern Europe, and perhaps even the modern F1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

Case closed but you're a bit of a wally that likes argueing for the sake of it so I'm off :wave:

---

Excuse me, because I have a different opinion is no excuse for you to use personal attack.

I respectful ask you to stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

Its funny how every media outlet, millions of fans, the FIA, and several current drivers have all jumped to the same conclusion though isn't it?

---

Junping to a conclusion....and without the important evidence to prove an order.

A conviction without evidence....how would you feel if it was you?

This was a obvious team order, in fact, "the teamorder".

Even my nine year old twin boys knowed that. Ofcourse, they are clever but no wunder kids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Junping to a conclusion....and without the important evidence to prove an order.

A conviction without evidence....how would you feel if it was you?

---

when I was a young man I i used to do sales I learned one important lesson.

"there are only two kinds of people who you cannot sell to. The ignorant and those with no money"

This mantra seems to ring true on these forums, where the only kinds of people you cannot reason with are those who are ignorant or in denial.

I don't know which one you fit in, but it seems to me that you have manged to convince yourself of something that even my mother noticed watching her first F1 race ever! Asking me whether it was normal to let another driver pass you because he is your teammate and if the other guy does not want to win?

Now the LdM has confirmed that much and you are still in denial, but you sir, still think nothing untoward happened. Pointless trying to have a discussion then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

An Italian who thinks he's above the law? No, I've no idea what he's got to do with this thread... :p

---

Well spotted! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

when I was a young man I i used to do sales I learned one important lesson.

"there are only two kinds of people who you cannot sell to. The ignorant and those with no money"

This mantra seems to ring true on these forums, where the only kinds of people you cannot reason with are those who are ignorant or in denial.

I don't know which one you fit in, but it seems to me that you have manged to convince yourself of something that even my mother noticed watching her first F1 race ever! Asking me whether it was normal to let another driver pass you because he is your teammate and if the other guy does not want to win?

Now the LdM has confirmed that much and you are still in denial, but you sir, still think nothing untoward happened. Pointless trying to have a discussion then.

---

3 years ago I thought that only the hardiest McLaren fans can deny what Martin and Ron themselves were saying. Now I know that some Ferrari fans aren't better either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

An Italian who thinks he's above the law? No, I've no idea what he's got to do with this thread... :p

---

He IS above the law, like many others. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

I don't know which one you fit in, but it seems to me that you have manged to convince yourself of something that even my mother noticed watching her first F1 race ever! Asking me whether it was normal to let another driver pass you because he is your teammate and if the other guy does not want to win?

Now the LdM has confirmed that much and you are still in denial, but you sir, still think nothing untoward happened. Pointless trying to have a discussion then.

---

Luca confirmed nothing other than Ferrari drivers are expected to be team players.

And you, my firend, have convinced yourself without the important factor....proof.

Until you provide proof, you have no claim to be correct.

"Fernando is faster than you".....please explain the order and instruction in this message, as those words do not include an order or instruction.

Until you provide proof of a spoken order, then there was no team order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

Using the phrase 'jumping to the same conclusion' is poking fun at the irony of how obvious team orders were in this case. The evidence was the there for all to see.

---

so prove it.

Provide the spoken word transcript where an order was given.

To be correct, you have to have this evidence.

Anything else is what a lawyer calls "supposizioni".

A Governing Body will need more than that to bring a punishment, especially one which lost a case against Briatore in a French courtroom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

"Fernando is faster than you".....please explain the order and instruction in this message, as those words do not include an order or instruction.

---

What if you quoted the whole radio transmission, not only a part of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

What if you quoted the whole radio transmission, not only a part of it?

---

There was no instruction or order in that either, so why should I?

If there was an instruction, an order, perhaps you could be so kind as to provide the quote?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

Well on this basis Briatore was an innocent man because he is yet to admit Renault had any involvement with Piquet's crash and no actual order was given. Although they were found guilty and the vast majority knew what had happened, there was no proof. Maybe has visit to Maranello last week was to offer some advice on how to give coded orders without dropping everyone in the brown stuff? But then again maybe not because everyone is innocent.

---

Innocent until proven guilty.

It is a fair and just thing, no?

You have yet to provide the proof. Prove it, then you can be correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Innocent until proven guilty.

It is a fair and just thing, no?

---

A great principle, sadly often misused as a cover for scum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

Its not just about what was said my friend. Its about analysing the whole situation and series of events. If I walk up to you with 4 days worth of beard growth and tell you that I am a woman and then wink as I say it, what does that suggest? I'm either pulling your leg or you're going to have to pull my pants off to prove that I'm lying or take my word for it with a head full of doubts.. Body language.. ;)

---

:up: Excellent one! I couldn't stop laughing after reading it.

Seriously, the Ferrari fans are taking as for idiots just like Domenicali and co. They think that people stop at appearances and never search beneath.

Some ferrari fans has an agenda, and they hope it will pays of at the end of the year.

what would be better
massa wins race 1 year to the day that he allmost lots his life
cheat from spygate and crashgate gets handed a win

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

what would be better
massa wins race 1 year to the day that he allmost lots his life
cheat from spygate and crashgate gets handed a win

---

I can only imagine how the self-righteous "fans" of f1 aka: the Massanites, would have attacked Senna and what they would have called him ........

Not to mention what these hypocrites would have called Jack Brabham, Fangio, Schumacher - well the list of teams and people who indulged in team orders is rather l-o-n-g and illustrous.

Why don't all y'all go and watch tennis or even worse, golf.

The best that can and should happen is for ALL the teams to ignore the team order rule - Bernie is on their side and Ferrari is now the de facto leader in the FOTA.

And with Jean Todt as FIA chief, Ferrari can expect a fair deal because obviously he can never be one of the Ferrari haters.

Primarily I suspect that this tirade against Ferrari is being led by the British contingent. They see it as some way of getting back at the years when Schumi made them suffer!

And the history of Ferrari and the officials at British tracks is not exactly love and light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I can only imagine how the self-righteous "fans" of f1 aka: the Massanites, would have attacked Senna and what they would have called him ........

Not to mention what these hypocrites would have called Jack Brabham, Fangio, Schumacher - well the list of teams and people who indulged in team orders is rather l-o-n-g and illustrous.

Why don't all y'all go and watch tennis or even worse, golf.

---

and what mr. morally justice here don't get is that these were rules NOW, and not back then, not even in Austria in 2002

and Luca himself says.....they done it, so what ? we lie and then when everyone but a few of the blind, see right through it, then I say, enough of the hypocrisy, we do things as we have always done (ie team orders) and we do not care for your agruments.

Ferrari fans deserve better than a cheap, lieing cheater who is no different than Flavio, being at Ferrari.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Innocent until proven guilty.

It is a fair and just thing, no?

You have yet to provide the proof. Prove it, then you can be correct.

---

Tamb???? good to have you back,thought you were banned forever, but i would think you, of all people, would be ashamed that Luca has now PUBLICLY put himself on the same or lower level as Ron Dennis and Flavio....... :rolleyes: