New car news!!

:D

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

No offense but it's like saying that baseball will have soccer for lunch in the world outside North America. :rolleyes:

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fair enough - my comments were definitely from a xenophobic american point of view ;)

and to a limited extent, the expanding markets care no more (or less) about F-1 than Indycar - theoretically if you send a great Indycar market to the Pacific Rim, they could easily displace F1..... As far as Europe and the former colonies around the world that are still heavily euro-centric - F1 will always be king

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

No offense but it's like saying that baseball will have soccer for lunch in the world outside North America. :rolleyes:

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upon further reflection, it would be more akin to me saying soccor would have baseball for lunch in North America if it ever had an unencumbered opportunity and a good effort.... I do not think baseball is a superior product to soccer/football(in the European sense of the word)...

I'm with ya.....

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Originally Posted by Chris R

you are 100% right - but the old car wouldn't either.... heck, the new champcar being pretty good didn't do them any good either....

My personal opinion is that they need to go radical and go to a front engine (optional but might be favorable with my other ideas), open wheel, aero limited (i.e. - the old "integral to the body" only) 4 wheel drive (allowable) model. They should include a stock "survival cell" that is non structural in nature and standardized. Everything else should be open as long as it fits in a box of a specific size.... To add some security to the series they should probably include penalty weight potential for overly successful cars.... oh,a and to limit power they would have to get a certain gas mileage or some other conversion to limit total energy used during any given race.....

Basically, standardize only a safety cell, let the boys have at it if it fits in the standard box, uses a set amount of energy and no longer includes "wings" or some other serious aero restriction that is beyond me....

THEN, you have a unique product that, whether it is faster or slower, can and will be interesting, exciting and innovative oh, and perhaps even cheap if they do the safety cell right).... THEN you have something to sell and to get excited about... Problem is, if it is a bust the game is over.....

Anyway, Ken, I do agree with your sentiments - it is just that I will be ok if the new car races well , I am more concerned about ugliness of the car than I am about the speed at the moment... I am guessing they will allow more power if needed to address the speed concerns.... you are right though, the new car is NOT going to being any new fans - but really, none of the concepts presented would have done it either.... If they want to grow the sport they need to break the mold and start anew....

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Competitive it subjective ... Look no further than the IRL putting up a string on close finishes and still seeing declines in attendance and ratings ..

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Close finishes and competitive racing are not the same thing at all. Close finishes are the result of the non-competitive 100% throttle "racing" we have right now.

Gary

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Your definition is subjective

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And your's is not???

Gary

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Originally Posted by Chris R

as for the speed thing, when was the last time NASCAR had "a new track record" at an "old" track??

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

NASCAR currently has a fan base and a working biz model...Indycar doesn't

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Wait a second, on one hand you are saying that a requirement for a series to have a fan base is for it to continuously produce higher and higher speeds, and yet in the next breath you say that NASCAR which hasn't produced a "new track record" has said fan base.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Close finishes and competitive racing are not the same thing at all. Close finishes are the result of the non-competitive 100% throttle "racing" we have right now.

Gary

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i don't know Gary, the IRL/Indycar has been producing some pretty competitive racing and not just 100% throttle racing- I would say any given race is at least as exciting as anything the competition has to offer (not to say there are not duds - but F1 and NASCAR have some real snoozefests also).

The big thing Indycar has a problem with is the length of the caution periods - and the number of cautions. They drive around at 50 mph for 5 laps on a street course and anyone will lose interest.....

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Originally Posted by Starter

Gary has a point. Some of the most interesting and competitive racing around is SCCA Formula V and Spec Miata. They are not the fastest classes out there by quite a bit, but they sure do put on interesting and exciting races. Getting real racing between cars and not flat all the way around is half the battle. Once we have that we can work on the pure speed part.

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I agree. I went to my first Indy Car race at Nazareth in 1995. What I was most impressed with was how much ground a following car could make up on the car ahead on the straight if the following driver got the corner right. Momentum racing is just not interesting to me. You may as well be rolling a bunch of marbles around in a bowl.

And for what it's worth, I don't watch NASCAR "momentum" races either. It's been years since I've watched the races from Daytona and Talladega . . . . . and my whole year used to revolve around the Daytona 500.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

And your's is not???

Gary

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What's subjective about a new track record?

Seriously Gary pay attention.... I'm saying the sport is in the dumper and the new car solves nothing.... It will garner not a single new viewer or attendee

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Wait a second, on one hand you are saying that a requirement for a series to have a fan base is for it to continuously produce higher and higher speeds, and yet in the next breath you say that NASCAR which hasn't produced a "new track record" has said fan base.

Gary

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Ken: black
Gary: white

Ken: up
Gary: down


Your being silly...