Student Riots

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Originally Posted by skc

Saying that, I completely disagree with you that a degree from what was the old Polytechnic system are in any way less valid than one from the the tradditional Uni's.

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Certainly no less valid, but I think the demarcation between polys and universities was a useful one. Turning all the polys into universities has only served to further devalue the latter term, in my view.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Before 1992 there were such things as Polytechnics which which issued certificates for a lot of practical trades. The then Major Government brought them under the auspices of the university system.
Society does need tradies as much as it needs doctors. Plumbers, gasfitters, carpenters, electricians all contribute to society. By the same token, those people need to be qualified enough to do their job and ensure that they don't accidentally kill themselves or other people.

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There has been this drive towards pushing people towards degrees rather than vocational courses which has lead to a shortage of trades people and Plumbers earning over £50k per year. Thank god for immigration redressing the balance :laugh:

Seriously though, the Technical Colleges still do a fantastic job but I believe a gradual realignment of the system is required with vocational training being viewed as being as desirable as a Degree.

There is this view that if you're not good enough to go to Uni, then you get a trade at college instead.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why stop there?!
The only answer to this question is because you stopped there. Am I right?
If everyone though like you than the world would be populated only by people with medium and low qualification that can hardly do more than sustain the present level of development. Also what would be the level of development without the researchers who helped the society evolve so far?

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I come on this forum to discuss views and understand other peoples opinions. Not to give out personal information about muself on an open site. Not trying to be rude but I prefer to not give out too much personal information but on this occassion, I will confirm I went to Uni as a mature student and paid for my course. I think that qualifies me to have an opinion on this matter and am not anti-University. In fact, I am pro-Uni and want to see the crap cut out of the current system and to have the best academic competence we can possibly have in this country.

Like it or not, my Country is in a hell of a financial mess. There has been too many people dipping the pockets of the tax payer. It now has to stop.

We either have a system where the people getting a financial benefit through the University system help pay for the continued excellence they experienced or we dilute that system by letting it continue as it is doing.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Sometimes it's also a crutch for those less intelligent people who simply aren't destined for university as well as being as you say, a throwback to the days when education at a university was actually reserved for those of the higher classes.

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But thanks to His Toniness being a bit dim is no longer a reason for not going to Uni as he decided that all and sundry should attend as it took them off the unemployment figures so made it look like Nu Labour were doing well.

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

Maybe your jealous because you don't have a degree. :p Incidently, I could do my job now if I had a degree in Peace Studies. No employer I have ever worked for has openly discriminated on degree course but they have discriminated on degree classification. Does it happen? I don't know, I've not been the one making decisions on whom to employ.

Why are you just focusing on the people you consider to be thick and those who you consider just to be going for a doss. There are going to be people who do not pay their fees back regardless of what degree course they do and where they do it. Some women for example may choose to have a family. They may be in the position when taking account of their partners income that they do not have to go out to work or they may just work part time and will not therefore pay any fees back due to them not earning £21k per annum.

I don't think I should open up the can of worm's that relates to student loans. I have actually paid off my student loan but if I didn't earn £15k per annum I wouldnt need to pay it back. If I hadn't paid it off by state retirement age it would get written off anyway. You can get a student moan regardless of degree course or university you go. It doesn't even matter of you don't complete the course either..... Ponder that for a while. Oh it will make your blood boil. :p

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But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

If you attend Uni and don't reach those earning limits then it is fair to say it was a complete waste of time and taxpayer's money.

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Originally Posted by skc

I agree that there are some courses that are best described as "drinking" degrees but I would hope that most people go to University to advance themselves.

Saying that, I completely disagree with you that a degree from what was the old Polytechnic system are in any way less valid than one from the the tradditional Uni's.

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Keeps them off the dole and sounds good.

No harm doing a course at Poly if that is what you want to do, but a lot of courses could be done in 1 year at College rather than 3 at Uni.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

but to keep an election pledge isn't?

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Lib Dems came 3rd so they aren't elected so don't have to keep their pie in the sky promises (as they well knew - if they thought they stood a cat in hells chance of being elected they wouldn't have made such wild promises in their manifesto).

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Originally Posted by skc

Like it or not, my Country is in a hell of a financial mess. There has been too many people dipping the pockets of the tax payer. It now has to stop.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

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Some might say that one of the options you mention is doing your job.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

If you attend Uni and don't reach those earning limits then it is fair to say it was a complete waste of time and taxpayer's money.

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I do agree with a lot of what you have said, Bolton Midnight however must pull you up on something you said a few pages ago regarding certain degrees. You classed psychology as a "lesser" degree in different words - I would disagree, as I have a degree in psychology and am currently working in sales. You may wonder how that relates to my current job - you would be surprised. And there are a lot of other degrees which lead on to good careers not necessarily in the same path as you would originally think.

Saying that, I do agree regarding Labour. Mr Blair and Labour fiddled the figures so that there were less "unemployed", keeping people in school and higher education. Clever tactics but not for the good of the country as a whole, along with other more blatant vote-winning policies on various certain subjects between 97 and 07.

Another Lancastrian - place is full of us, good do. Glad you agree with most of what I'm saying, restores faith in this place that it isn't full of clueless lefties after all.

But would you have benefited more with say a Sales / Marketing HND course with your current job? That would have only been a 2 year course at Tuson.