Ford Fiesta RS WRC

Hirvonen talented ? yes obviously but probably never would have made it without the manager.
He shortcircuited other drivers who had made it through the steps and were talented as well, took the place and maintained himself there with cash for as long as it took until reliability and speed came along years later.

McRae was lined up for the 2004 Subaru seat and in an interveiw at the time he said that he thought he had got the drive and so did DR. So clearly some money was passed around at that time..

Hirvonen was never suited for the 2nd Subaru seat with his cv at that time, so of course money had to be involved (but remember that Burns would've originally taken the seat had it not been for his ilness, and McRae as Macd said was also in contention, but even more money was involved in that only the other way around).

I do think Hirvonen did very good as a privateer in 2005, most prominent his 3rd place at Catalunya (where road position didn't matter at all). By then he was good enough to be a 2nd driver at Ford, but bar 2009, his role as the lead driver has never felt fulfilling enough imo. I have more faith in Jari-Matti anytime and, despite him being under Joukhi's control too, he has all the right to be in the place he is right now.

Hirvonen was obviously worth more in terms of PR/Marketing than Mc Rae……. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kaffi

LOEB was supported by CHAMPEAU for rallies in the french championship, driving a citroen SAXO kit car. In 2001 for the rally du Var guy frequelin offered him his first salary to drive a rally in the XSARA kit car, about 30.000Euros. He won the rally and from that point on he was paid a salary.
LOEB was overall supported by sponsors for max 2 seasons in french champ. to run in a SAXO, about 400.000Euro per season. So it is nowhere to be compared with the sort of sums that JOUHKI has pumped to keep Hirvonen and Latvala alive in motorsport.

I don't care if somebody gets support, good for him afterall. The problem is that JOUHKI's tactics are unfair to others. He kills off other drivers, just as skilled or potentially better as his drivers, by using his endless supply of cash to forcefully and endlessly place HIS drivers in the OFFICIAL teams.

Ask Gronholm, Pykalisto, Tuohino, Paasonen how it was for them when they started without help from JOUHKI ??

If you are Wilson and you get 2 calls in November : one from JOUHKI and his 2.5mill Euros to take Hirvonen as n°2 factory driver or Pykalisto who is supported by Gronholm and DHL, with maybe 3 or 400.000 Euro, or nothing.
Who does Wilson take ?

And then what happens when Hirvonen crashes ? first time is ok, says Wilson...then 2nd time Wilson starts to make a face...3rd crash Wilson rings Jouhki and says who pays for my crashed cars ??

A guy like Pykalisto would not have this kind of insurance. After 2 crashes you are OUT. :(

When the second SUBARU seat was open for 2004 season, Jouhki knew that PRODRIVE was not so hot to take his Hirvonen, so what does he do ? :confused:
He flies, together with his driver TOMMI MAKINEN who had just been retired, over to the SUBARU HQ in JAPAN and convinces the JAPS to have PRODRIVE hire Hirvonen, seeing MAKINEN support the kid, they agree and apply the pressure.

Do you see Tuohino being able to do that ??

But this stunt backfired in Hirvonen's face because PRODRIVE was so unimpressed that he never got equal treatment with SOLBERG, and got the boot at the end of the year.

In 2005 JOUHKI rented JARI VIITA's car for Hirvonen. They chose a few rallies where they thought they could be really competitive. There was proper testing organised and god knows what else. Naturally, with very good starting positions on gravel rallies due to him not competing in the WRC, a very competitive car supported by M-Sport and some good experience he managed to pull off a performance. 6 rallies, 3 retirements, 2 times 5th and a 3rd place, including one factory drive in NESTE RALLY (5th).

Luckily for Hirvonen an official pay to drive seat opened at Ford in 2006 for the n°2 car. GRONHOLM was hired by Wilson for a fortune so JOUHKI's money was very welcome. At that moment Hirvonen's CV was not good enough to hope for a free drive, needless to say a salary. Afterall his best results was 3rd in Catalunya and 2 times fourth in the IMPREZA.

Hirvonen's first win came in Australia 2006, on his 52nd WRC event since GB 2002, driving a top WRC car, of which he retired 18 times for various reasons including multiple accidents. :eek:

Over the years KANKKUNEN, ROVANPERA, MAKINEN, MIKKOLA, GARDEMEISTER, LATVALA, HIRVONEN have all been supported by JOUHKI, and in some cases have only managed to survive thanks to his cash, to the detriment of some other poor blokes who should have had their chance too.

To give you an idea about JOUHKI's abilities, in 2003 season he managed

Gardemeister in factory SKODA
Rovanpera in factory PEUGEOT
Makinen in factory SUBARU
Hirvonen in semi-factory FORD
Latvala in semi-factory FORD.

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I have a couple of questions.
where JOUHKI's money come from?
is he making a profit with his latest drivers JML and Hirvo or a loss?
why he is doing so?
who are the "failed" drivers he picked up and then regret (read an interview about this)
who is the british driver he was ready to promote and what happened then

Jouhki's money comes from shipping vessel company(cargo ships and stuff), and other companies. I believe his family is richest in Finland. He himself is apparently not caring so much about the family business, as he likes to play the driver's manager. He seems to have a brother taking care of the family business (not sure exactly).

I don't know really about his profits on driver's contracts. I have heard at the time that he gets back 40% of his drivers salaries once they start earning money.
At the moment he has probably started earning money back from his two latest drivers.

Picking up on what Kaffi said about the Hirvonen / McRae / Subaru thing, DR was forced into taking MH by Subaru Japan, and I think the whole Prodrive / Subaru Japan relationship unraveling can be traced around that time. Things got worse, and whispers about Subaru going with Tommi Makinen Racing all started after this. Dont underestimate Juokhi, his influences go back a long time, it was Timo Juohki's father who gave Hannu Mikkola a start, along long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Kaffi

Jouhki's money comes from shipping vessel company(cargo ships and stuff), and other companies. I believe his family is richest in Finland. He himself is apparently not caring so much about the family business, as he likes to play the driver's manager. He seems to have a brother taking care of the family business (not sure exactly).

I don't know really about his profits on driver's contracts. I have heard at the time that he gets back 40% of his drivers salaries once they start earning money.
At the moment he has probably started earning money back from his two latest drivers.

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thank you

more about this:
who are the "failed" drivers he picked up and then regret (read an interview about this)
who is the british driver he was ready to promote and what happened then

that is completey unfair to brandish "Pay" drivers as worthless and damaging to the WRC. if it gets them on the international stage and they can provide a challenge to the established drivers like loeb then surely its a win win situation if there are more poeple challanging for the wins?

Don´t forget that CMR was a driver in his last years and MH was a rising star. I know.
Remember what happened to CMR in Citroen. Just crashes.

I do really like CMR and all he did. But at the time it was different.
That has to be considered.