2012 Presidential Race

Interesting post. It does raise the question "What drives the economy? Is it government policy and decisions or is it market forces, ie bankers' decisions and opinions?". Clearly government decisions can influence the direction the economy is going, or if you like give it a steer, but do they actually control it? I think not.
I'm not sure quite where the division of powers lies in the USA. To what extent can the President take action without the sanction of Congress (both houses) and by corollary without the consent of his party? In the context of this thread, are you really voting for the man or are you voting for his party's policies?
I appreciate that these are not easy questions to answer in the USA with its federalised structure.

It's a very important point. As I understanding with my limited knowledge of American politics is that if the situation were the same in the UK, we'd have a Labour Prime Minister, yet a Tory majority in the Commons?

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Rollie-baby, love your stuff, you write marveluous.

I hope you have time to glance at this:

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I did. I also happened to take note of the rather ignorant first line too:

In Citizens United (2010), the Court held that private corporations, which are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution and are not political membership organizations, enjoy the same political free speech rights as people under the First Amendment

Nowhere, huh? Tell me, where in the First Amendment does it define a "person" or "people".
Notwithstanding Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad 118 U.S. 394 (1886) which upheld corporations' rights of protection of personhood under the Fourteenth Amendment?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
- Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Corporations are very much citizens of the United States, subject to the laws of the land and subject to taxation and the relevant laws which they reside in.

And then there's this:
Regulation S. Section 902(k)(1)
Definition of person:
1. Any natural person resident in the United States;
2. Any partnership or corporation organized or incorporated under the laws of the United States;
- Securities Act of 1933

Corporate personhood exists in all 50 states and in Federal Law.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

I would like to point out that the legal fiction of corporation as person falls apart once the comparison step over from the Civil to the Criminal... Cops arrests baddies, courts put them on trial, and if it was a criminal act---including such things as criminal conspiracy---the courts send people to jail.
"Corporations" don't seem to get locked up very often---unlike ordinary citizens as we sop amply demonstrate with our 'Prison-Industrial Complex---we lock 'em up far better than all those limp-wristed Euro Sossi countries.

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It is rather difficult for White Picket Fences Plc to actually commit assault and battery. It is also somewhat difficult for a corporation to commit most criminal offences against physical person. That would make an interesting challenge for you I suspect.

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Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

As you can see I edited my post, Jim was a reasonably sane man after he was released from Patton (at least as sane as me); He just had some of the fight taken out of him, but was what most people would call a productive member of society (general contractor). I think our real disagreement (if you even want to call it one) is that at that time things were quite different than they are now. My actual baseball career stopped suddenly due to a very serious injury, and I became very aware of social justice as I worked the rest of my way through college. The progressive movement in the 60's was exactly that, too real, but more importantly too free (not absolutely free). As you probably know it was the onset of what could have been a socialist revolution in the USA.
But the conservative elements of our government took whatever measures necessary to discredit it, and then destroy it.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...67976283_n.jpg

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Dudely , are we talking about Abby , or Jimmy ?

The point is that this stuff happened long after those tie-dyed years , when Abby came out of hiding .
I'm sure many of those who attended were expecting the bright flowing colours , but he told a rather more serious tale , and , frankly , it chilled us all .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Dudely , are we talking about Abby , or Jimmy ?

The point is that this stuff happened long after those tie-dyed years , when Abby came out of hiding .
I'm sure many of those who attended were expecting the bright flowing colours , but he told a rather more serious tale , and , frankly , it chilled us all .

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Come on dude, your harshing my mellow. :cool: That is why I said I don't have all the answers regarding those two. Their is a credible arguement that he simply commited suicide. I wasn't there or maybe I could give you something more like what you want to hear. While you are at it let me know where Jimmy is vacationing now ;) . Reality is what he brought to the radical left. The Radical left movement was not about tie-dye and herb, that is revisionist history. However Hoffman was a very serious player, and not a garden variety radical, although he was a publicty hound, and judging by what he did at Woodstock a bit of a screwball. Whatever happened to him in the 80's does not surprise me at all. I know a woman that lives in L.A. right now that was a high up (for a woman) in A.I.M. and she is involved in an ongoing Federal kidnap, rape and murder trail perpetrated by the leadership of that Native American organization in the 70's of a close friend of hers, another woman in that circle. Nothing surprises me.


Chicago Seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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The Chicago Seven (originally Chicago Eight, also Conspiracy Eight/Conspiracy Seven) were seven defendants—Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, John Froines, and Lee Weiner—charged with conspiracy, inciting to riot, and other charges related to protests that took place in Chicago, Illinois on the occasion of the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Bobby Seale, the eighth man charged, had his trial severed during the proceedings, lowering the number from eight to seven.

The 1968 Democratic National Convention was held in Chicago in late August—convened to select the party's candidates for the November 1968 Presidential election. Prior to and during the convention—which took place at the International Amphitheatre—rallies, demonstrations, marches, and attempted marches took place on the streets and in the lakefront parks, about five miles away from the convention site. These activities were primarily in protest of President Lyndon B. Johnson's policies for the Vietnam War, policies which were vigorously contested during the presidential primary campaign and inside the convention.

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Can we move on to Jack and Bobby Kennedy dorking Marylyn family style, and then offing her with a poison suppository up that fine can Mr. Dunne? :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini

Come on dude, your harshing my mellow. :cool: That is why I said I don't have all the answers regarding those two. Their is a credible arguement that he simply commited suicide. I wasn't there or maybe I could give you something more like what you want to hear. While you are at it let me know where Jimmy is vacationing now ;) . Reality is what he brought to the radical left. The Radical left movement was not about tie-dye and herb, that is revisionist history. However Hoffman was a very serious player, and not a garden variety radical, although he was a publicty hound, and judging by what he did at Woodstock a bit of a screwball. Whatever happened to him in the 80's does not surprise me at all. I know a woman that lives in L.A. right now that was a high up (for a woman) in A.I.M. and she is involved in an ongoing Federal kidnap, rape and murder trail perpetrated by the leadership of that Native American organization in the 70's of a close friend of hers, another woman in that circle. Nothing surprises me.


Chicago Seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Can we move on to Jack and Bobby Kennedy dorking Marylyn family style, and then offing her with a poison suppository up that fine can Mr. Dunne? :dozey:

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Sorry for the bummer , man , but this aint about Abby , except that it was he who related the tale .

'Tis the tale , itself , not Abby's demise that chilled us all that day .
Chills came to me and many like me , I'm sure , later when we heard he had "killed himself" .

No names of who was actually running the "over-oval office" were offered , but Jimmy did offer John Tower specifically as both covert and treasonous in his initial involvement , and , most cynically set as the man to "cover his own tracks" in "The Tower Commission" .
Conveniently , Tower , in both roles could thus easily be played as a "rogue" , and was thus unlikely to ever reveal this plot against your president . Of course , he would also be corfortable .

I believe Abby told me the truth , and that Jimmy answered his own phone .

Let's agree to disagree; Abbie could always spin a good yarn!

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

I was in Intel

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cool :laugh:

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

cool :laugh:

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Ironic isn't it.

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

Where are the conservatives and Republicans at ?

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Disregarding your dangling preposition, the Republicans are busy distancing themselves from Romney like so many rats jumping off a sinking ship!