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I don't recall it from before, but Ireland really should be a new event (trial run last year for WRC 2007). The traditional Circuit of Ireland may or may not run this year (currently it is still happening) but that is because of a falling out between sponsor and organisers.
Yes, we already settled on Rally Ireland being a new event, having its first edition in 2005.Quote:
Originally Posted by FAL
I've got a question about Portugal as well though - I checked and according to the edition numbering in my database this year's event should be the 40th edition of Portugal. I've taken my edition numbers from World Rallying, but I don't have them at hand here at university, so if someone could check if 2001 (the last WRC edition of the rally until this year) is edition 34 or 35 according to Holmes would be helpful.
[quote="kabouter"]When Janusz asked this some time back we settled on Ireland and Portugal, but we didn't continue the discussion if Rally Norway should be considered a continuation of Rally Finnskog Norway (which would mean last weekend the 26th Rally Norway was held) or if last year's event was a new start, making this the 2nd Rally Norway. At the moment I tend to include the Finnskog rallies as the organisers of that event also play a role in Rally Norway and Rally Norway took the spot of Rally Finnskog on the calendar. Does anyone have reasons to change this view?
QUOTE]
Interesting question, but IMO Rally Norway is not just a continuation of Rally Finnskog Norway (a rally that in early days also held the names Finnskog Vinterrally and Rally Finnskog). The first event was held in 1982 and the last and 24th was held in 2005. Again IMO, this so far ends the story of Rally Finnskog, which makes this years WRC-event the 2nd Rally Noirway.
Only three stages out of 18 in this years Rally Norway used bits and pieces of old Rally Finnskog stages (SS 4, SS 5 and SS7). RN also used roads/stages earlier used in Rally Solør (SS2), Rally Snøfresern a.k.a "Snowplough" (SS 9/18 and 10), Rally Elverum (SS 9/18), Rally Hedmarken (SS13/16) and Rally Lillehammer (SS 12). The three first events were snow rallies, Hedmarken ran on gravel and Lillehammer on tarmac/gravel. So inside the Rally Norway route there were pieces/parts of stages from a total of six other events.
It is true that some of the organisers from Finnskog and some businessmen from the town of Kongsvinger originally came up with the idea of a WRC-event in Norway, and sure enough they would very much have liked to see this event as a pure continuation of Rally Finnskog. The first plans put forward was a more or less complete Finnskog-based event, but other organising clubs and not to forget the Norwegian ASN (Norges Bilsportforbund) was against this. In fact everybody outside the Kongsvinger/Finnskog "clan" pushed for a Hamar-based event to make use of the strong sporting reputation from the 1994 Olympics (in Lillehammer and Hamar). And this was of course the only sensible solution, as we have seen this last week.
When it comes to Rally Finnskog history I can tell all interested parties that this is now well documented in a DVD-film (made by my company - http://www.tv-media.no) called "20 år med Rally Finnskog" ("20 years of Rally Finnskog"). We regretably didn`t have any video or TV-footage from the first three events, 82,83 and 84, but everything from 1985 to 2005 is documented in a 3 1/2 hour film.
The text on the cover of the film - and the commentary - states that Rally Finnskog was the rally that originally started the process towards a WRC-event in Norway. But still, historically and geographically, you have to consider Rally Finnskog and Rally Norway two different events.
No data/records but sounds about right. As far as I know the first UK start (there were multiple start venues, like Monte Carlo) for the TAP Rally was 1968 (1 car, a Mini Cooper S). In 1969 there were quite a few UK starters. Both times from a hotel near Heathrow airport but not the same hotel as the RAC Rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabouter
Tjeerd, 35th edition in 2001 (Holmes has 34th)
Let's see
1 - 1967
2 - 1968
3 - 1969
4 - 1970
5 - 1971
6 - 1972
7 - 1973
8 - 1974
9 - 1975
10 - 1976
11 - 1977
12 - 1978
13 - 1979
14 - 1980
15 - 1981
16 - 1982
17 - 1983
18 - 1984
19 - 1985
20 - 1986
21 - 1987
22 - 1988
23 - 1989
24 - 1990
25 - 1991
26 - 1992
27 - 1993
28 - 1994
29 - 1995
30 - 1996
31 - 1997
32 - 1998
33 - 1999
34 - 2000
35 - 2001
36 - 2002
37 - 2003
38 - 2004
39 - 2005
40 - 2006
41 - 2007
Regards
jorge
I found a logo for the 1995 Rallye de Portugal with the number 28:
http://www.worldrally.net/pakar/95/portugal95.html
I checked my World Rallyings and Holmes is consistent in his numbering from the start.
Might the reason be that the 1967 rally was a national event only which wasn't included in the official count for a while? Just guessing here.
And thank you Iskald for your eplanation. Does anyone have anything to add or do we agree that this was the 2nd Rally Norway?
Nobody can disagree with that, I think. I certainly don`t, having competed in the Rally Finnskog events first time in 1986 and nearly all years up to 2005. For those who are interested I will tell that I have done the event in a great variety of cars like Toyota Corolla WRC, Toyota Celica ST205, Ford Escort Cosworth, Mitsubishi Evo 6, Peugeot 205, Lada Samara 1300 (!), Ford Escort RS Turbo, VW Golf, Opel Kadett Gsi and some others.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabouter
I know there are several people that would have liked to see a lot more of the stages from the Finnskog Rally in Rally norway, but regretably these stages are too far away (eastwards) and the infrastructure is not good enough in this wast forest area that is called Finnskogen (Finn Forest - named after Finnish immigrants!). A pity really for some of these stages are classics in Norway and fantastic stages. But with todays regulations concerning remote services, and also the limitations in stage and road-section mileage between service halts, its just not possible.
Re- Portugal. I am fairly certain 1968 was the first year we really became aware in the UK of the TAP Rally as an International. I have tried to recall whether it might have been 1967 but I'm sure it wasn't. The next year some good deals must have been on offer because there were a lot of British private entries. That second year must have been 1969 because there were several private Escort Twincams (Toney Cox is one I recall). If it had been 1968 there would not have been any in private hands yet.
But Jorge is the expert!
Thanks for your input on this matter, FAL! I think it's certain there was an event in 1967, but the question is if it was an international event, and if during the 1980s and 1990s it was included in the "edition count" of the rally. It's certain it's included now - the official Rally Guide includes the 1967 winners in the roll of honour.
I've checked my books and I'm correct !
In the book 'César Torres - História do Rallye de Portugal" they put (how do we say) the papers announced the rally and for example the 1973's edition was the 7th Rallye International TAP. In 1967 it's written there '1st Rallye Internacional TAP'.
Regards
jorge