What is so hard to understand? Why you can't find the damn shift key.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papyrus
What is so hard to understand? Why you can't find the period key.
What is so hard to understand? In one word... YOU!
Gary
Printable View
What is so hard to understand? Why you can't find the damn shift key.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papyrus
What is so hard to understand? Why you can't find the period key.
What is so hard to understand? In one word... YOU!
Gary
LGBP Survives Series
The Long Beach Grand Prix feels more like Liechtenstein every day.
The tiny principality is small in size only. It's an Old World city with a new world economy that appears disaffected by the tumult in that lands around it.
Such is the Grand Prix. The city fathers love the event. It draws six-digits worth of humanity annually to its weekend of racing, and the economic community considers it institutional stock.
Now if only it could get away from the tumult of Champ Car.
The racing series is once again beset by problems and gaffes, operated by directors who seemingly can't read a map, which is not a good thing if auto racing is your game. The people who run the Grand Prix look at this mess, shrug their shoulders yet again, and move on with its usual purpose.
The race isn't immune to these problems, but it has a stronger constitution than others.
"We can operate in a semi-autonomous vacuum," said Jim Michaelian, the CEO of the Grand Prix Association. "We like to think we have the greatest venue for the sport in North America, and we continually put on a good show.
"There's no doubt our task is more challenging than it was years ago, but it doesn't stop us from doing our thing to make the race a success and evolve."
Success is not a word the Champ Car World Series can use, and there's more de-evolution than evolution for the group. The circuit is simply overwhelmed by the things on its plate.
Like a lack of name drivers.
Sebastian Bourdais, the mild-mannered Frenchman who has won six of the 12 races this season, 29 in his career and 26 of the last 53 in the series, is headed to Formula One next season, taking away the circuit's most successful name.
Robert Doornbos, the rookie from the Netherlands who has six podium finishes and two wins this season, is a former F1 vet who will likely have his pick of tours to choose from next season. Katherine Legge, the pleasant Brit who gained the circuit some notoriety in 2006, is struggling with Coyne Racing, the Tampa Day Devil Rays of open-wheel racing.
Justin Wilson (four podiums in 2007) may make the move to the Indy Racing League next season. Promising rookie Graham Rahal, the only American on the tour, has four podiums this season, and one imagines it's just a matter of time before he starts driving for his dad Bobby in the IRL.
Like a dwindling number of events.
Two events on the 2007 schedule have been scrubbed, the long-awaited race in China that had already been moved to October, and the Pheonix race that was supposed to be the season-ender and bring the tour back to North America after four months overseas. They mark the fourth and fifth races to be cancelled in the last three years.
The Las Vegas race, conducted by the same people who just cancelled the Phoenix race, is in doubt for 2008. It was announced Tuesday that the race in San Jose will move to Laguna Seca in 2008, which is a storied track but also represents a move from a big-name city to a rural track.
There were also two separate seven-week breaks in the season. The IRL held just 17 events, but had larger fields. For comparison purposes, NASCAR has as many racing weekends as Champ Car and the IRL combined.
Like a lack of growth in teams.
Two teams that merged before the season, RuSports and Rocketsports, have since split. Champ Car's promise of a lineup of 20-plus cars each event wasn't met, with 17 starting most events this season. The IRL may not be much better off than Champ Car in the exhaust of NASCAR, but there are still team names like Andretti, Ganassi, Foyt, Rahal/Letterman and Penske in the sport. In Champ Car, there's Newman/Haas.
(That said, the IRL just announced a plan to eliminate race purses and switch to revenue sharing to prop up weaker teams, which could lead the Andrettis et al to consider jumping back to Champ Car.)
Like geography.
Of the 16 races, only seven were held in the United States, with three others in Canada and four across various oceans. With Phoenix gone, the North American calendar ended in mid-August.
This disparity may become even greater. The three men who run Champ Cap, Kevin Kalkhoven, Paul Gentilozzi and Dan Pettit, are openly talking about adding more events in Europe after great reception from their events in Belgium and the Netherlands this month.
NASCAR dominates here. F1 is looking more to emerging nations than Old World ones, and it is cutting its investment in Europe dates, which makes Champ Car's thought of invading Europe almost sensible. Europe offers Champ Car things it can't get here - like sponsorship and TV ratings.
For those still dreaming of a merger with IRL, forget it. Once the IRL's Tony George couldn't get the terms he wanted on a merger or a working relationship, the idea went dead.
"We want Champ Car to have a strong North American presence, and we want a schedule where there aren't so many bloody long periods without races," Michaelian said. "And we want American drivers and American teams that we can promote.
"We're in a renewal phase with ticket holders, and they ask these kind of questions. We get notes from fans that want to know if Rahal/Letterman and Scott Speed (who's leaving F1) are coming back to Champ Car. These fans are critical to our event."
He said they represent about 30 percent of the race's fan foundation.
But that other 70 percent is just as important. It's what made the Grand Prix a party as much as a race and has allowed it to avoid problems. "Our approach is different," he continued. "We don't isolate on just the race. We will add anything to the program, from motorcycles to skateboarding to music, to make it better.
"We put on a great show (in CART's best days), and we put on a great show now. It's just different. We find every opportunity we can to evolve."
In the open-wheel world, they appear to be the only ones.
http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_6867104
What I don`t understand is how paper beats rock. :D
What is so hard to understand is the question we ask as those who want the greatest series to be dead continue to ignoar the truth of what we desire as we keep our world series alive and the product that is the best going forewards for those who believe like those true fans of real racing in Assen. You did see at that one great race proof of what we believe and seek for the future becuse nothing has stopped our great product since 1909 not FTG or the OT cartel of those who follow the family from the state I send this message to all here from or a little man who thinks the world is his but we have proven him wrong in Assen so he will stop nowhere to stop us from what we all desire as we keep the series alive with the faith of those i speak to who see our faith and say puck the doubters and puck the grandson and his poeple who seek to destroy what is right what is so hard to understand?
Huh? Do you hear voices or are dogs talking to you? Aren't you lost and on the wrong site or are you just goofing on us? Probably. But if not, I think I know who you are and you make as much sense as usual. From what I have seen this season, you must be the savant advising Champ Car on their schedule, PR and marketing. Since you have a direct link to the "ones with the plan", could you please tell them that it sucks so far. It is time for a different plan and no more of their silly Plan 9 From Outer Space. Also tell them to read John Orevicz’s latest on ESPN.com:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papyrus
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/column...ohn&id=3016350
He writes:
“Some races that survived the CART bankruptcy lasted five or six years, like Denver, Montreal and Monterrey, Mexico. But they're the exception to the rule and they are all off the Champ Car schedule now. In all, whopping 13 events have come and gone since Y2K, including traditional stalwarts like Milwaukee.
And that number doesn't even include non-starters like Korea, China and Phoenix. Or the Hawaiian Super Prix, for that matter.”
So Papyrus, we should “***** doubt” eh? There are more races gone in this century than will likely be on Champ Car's schedule in 2008, if in fact, there is a 2008 Champ Car season.
Well I can’t ***** Doubt any longer. Commander Kevster’s latest version of what Champ Car’s “plan” is smacks of desperation and strains credibility:
“We've learned that Europe really likes us, so we'll push on there, and we've learned that there are other parts of the world where, as Formula 1 departs, they have a great interest.”
Okay. Papyrus, please tell Commander Kevster, I agree that there are some people who may have great interest in other parts of the world in Champ Car (I hear we are big in Poland and Paraguay too) but what about here in the USA? Your new plan will only diminish interest and remove whatever scant credibility remains for our once proud series.
Like Papyrus, I speak with those who know and it is looking more likely that Champ Car may soon lose several of top teams to other series that run the majority of their races in the USA. If that happens, where are the new teams coming from to replace the 4-6 cars they will be gone?
A1GP?
Formula Holden?
World of Outlaws? Actually, that would be fitting.
Fear spreads like fire and I can feel it in a Champ Car paddock these days as strongly as I felt it in the last days of CART. Several of Champ Car’s current team owners have seen it all before. I now suspect that in light of recent events, common sense and survival instincts are now kicking into overdrive and these team owners will deflect Commander Kevster’s Spinton torpedoes and ignore his Farce Shields as they fight for a more stable future elsewhere.
Which begs the question: what is Champ Car anyway?
Is it events that are preserved from the collapse of CART? Maybe, but only eight races remain from the 20 race 2003 schedule: Long Beach, Monterey, Portland (doubtful), Cleveland, Road America, Toronto, Surfers (which is still referred to as “Indy” in the logo and by the locals) and Mexico City.
Is it American? Doubtful, there are only two American drivers in the series and only four or five races now likely on American soil in 2008.
Is it the rightful successor to the American National Championship previously sanctioned by AAA, USAC and CART? That is a stretch these days since the vast majority of the races held in this championship over the prior 98 years have been oval tracks and they have been in the USA. There are no ovals in Champ Car any longer and with only 4-5 likely races in the USA in 2008 I can’t see it. In 2007, The IRL had 16 of 17 races in the USA they raced 12 times on ovals. This obviously includes Indy which also held the first two oval races in the inaugural year of American National Championship in 1909 which Champ Car so often claims as its heritage. The IRL also now has St. Pete, Mid-Ohio Sears Point, Watkins Glen and Belle Isle – all of which held either USAC or CART races previously. Consider what happens to this claimed heritage if several of ChampCar’s traditional races die or move to the dark side?
Is it the teams? How many are left from the CART era that gave the sport its identity? Newman/Haas/Lanigan, Forsythe, Walker, Coyne and Conquest. The IRL has Penske, Ganassi, Andretti/Green and Rahal/Letterman. If 2-3 of ChampCar’s core teams depart for “greener” pastures, what is left?
Is it the fans? Well, some of us are still here but true attendance at all the races I have been to is not encouraging. Ditto for the TV ratings.
Is it the sponsors? What sponsors? McDonalds and Pay By Touch? Hey, CDW, thanks for stopping by on your way to somewhere else! Too bad the folks at Motorock and Lexington energy never would buy anything. Did you try iRise? I hear they need some mouse pads.
Is it the manufacturers? Mazda in the Atlantic series counts for something but no, Champ Car is not a major league series without manufacturer involvement at the top level.
Is it the Cars? Ten years ago there were 26-28 cars representing five different world-class chassis manufacturers: Reynard, Lola, Penske, Swift and Eagle. These cars were perhaps the most beautiful race cars in the world. Today we have 17 semi tatty spec cars built by an IRL chassis supplier. When you have seen one, you have seen them all.
So just what is Champ Car now?
The answer to that question gives a clue to what happens next.
CART is dead.
ovals are not necessary to CC.
Every series changes and gets rid of events every series. F1 has ,ALMS has Grand Am, Nascar does, every major series evolves and changes. These series have been around longer too. CC doesn't have to keep events that aren't working ,just to look good to the press. CC has 4 years, its a work in progress.
While nascar continues to recruit foreign drivers to make themselves international, CC is already there. Good drivers ,american or not.
CC is not challenged by the departure of a manufacturer, cosworth is there.
Fans ,enough said. San Jose is sorry to see their GP go.Cleveland and RA are back.
The car is great and the best decision the owners made.
It's about the racing and the racing is good.
CC is put under a microscope for things other series do all the time. It's not a sign of failure ,its changing to make it better,just like any series does.
Everyone just cares so much more about CC. It's great.
In the history of sports there have been many teams that fail every year but their fans never give up. (The Chicago Cub and Cleveland Browns fans come to mind.) For those fans it's always the next game and as the year goes on there is always next year.
Then there are the fair weather fans that only come out and support their team when the team is A WINNING TEAM.
Then there are the ONLY IF FANS. I will support the team ONLY IF THEY ( go to my favorite race track, secure my American driver)
Then there are fans that are not fans at all but show up and claim to be fans when they are given something for free. A free race day ticket or an invitation to hospitality tent or as simple as free TV.
Then there are those Debbie Downer fans that have an impulse to find the negative side of every positive issue and expand negative issues to a dooms day downer.
Then there are fans who will buy a three day weekend ticket the first day tickets are sold. They purchase those tickets, without qualification. They purchase tickets in many cases before teams, drivers and the rest of the schedule is set. They purchase ticket for the love of the series.
Huh? Who actually believes this delusional spin anymore? This is like saying Ford's purchase of Jaguar is a success because people still buy the cars. You and Papyrus should hook up and see if you can get a discount on Kool Aid by buying in bulk quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
I see evidence that the DP1 was anything but "the best decision the owners made". 17 cars and only one new team (sorry mate, Minardi USA doesn't count).
Fans, enough said? Huh? How can you actually believe that? Our races are bombing at the gate and on TV at home. Phoenix sold something like 1000 tickets. Vegas had well less than 20k on the grounds on race day despite a flood of free tickets in town. San Jose was JDS/Uniphase on wheels for the promoter. Ditto for Denver, which I hear, actually sold less than 20k total tickets for the entire weekend in 2006. Portland had well less than 15K on race day. Mexico now has less than half the seats it had in 2003. Okay, we are big in Holland and Australia... but in the later case, the event was built by a combination of having CART, the brand Indy and the V-8 series. The TV ratings are barely measurable when we can get on TV. People aren't as dumb as you need them to be to keep your fantasy world alive.
So, you believe “It's about the racing and the racing is good.”
I live in the real world where results count so I actually believe it is really about something else that matters far more:
Credibility.
1. capable of being believed; believable: a credible statement.
2. worthy of belief or confidence; trustworthy: a credible witness.
—Synonyms 1. plausible, likely, reasonable, tenable.
The lack of credibility is the real reason our series is constantly under a microscope. It now takes the best micorscope money can buy to find any faint trace of that once abundant element that is so crucial to success. What tiny credibility there was left this summer has evaporated in the past two weeks and all I can see now (even without a microscope) are failures, embarrassments, lies, rationalizations and desperation. How the hell do we build anything that will last with those elements?
What about the rest of the events?
Mexico does over 100k weekend
Vegas had 40k on race day
Denver did over 100k weekend
San Jose over 80k weekend
Portland over 70k weekend
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...e.asp?ID=11978Quote:
CHAMP CAR WELCOMES ONE MILLIONTH FAN IN SAN JOSE
Saturday, July 28, 2007
Champ Car World Series shows growth in several areas through first half of 2007
SAN JOSE (July 28, 2007) - The Champ Car World Series honored its one millionth fan of the 2007 season at the San Jose Grand Prix at Redback Raceway today, an early milestone for the Series due to attendance being up 16% this year.
Storm Vanderzee, John Walsh and family, who are attending the race weekend together, were showered with confetti and greeted by Champ Car personalities as they entered the turnstile. After television crews and photographers captured the special moment, they were whisked away to the Champ Car suite, where they watched the highly competitive 2007 Champ Car field prepare for today's qualifying session, and headed to the paddock for lunch at the hospitality area of the Canadian Triple Crown winning team of Team Australia. The group ate with the crew, team owner Derrick Walker and drivers Simon Pagenaud and Will Power, who is involved in a tight battle for the Championship lead, where the top-four drivers are within 29 points of each other.
The milestone reached this weekend reflects the Champ Car World Series' improved performance to date in 2007. Not only is attendance up but more fans have been tuning into the race broadcasts this year in order to follow the budding rivalry between Sebastien Bourdais and Robert Doornbos, the emergence as Team Australia as one of the top teams, or to see which rookie will make it on the podium. Television viewership is up 11 percent over 7 races this year compared to 2006.
Sanguin,
Vegas did not have 40K on Race Day. The grandstands at the time only held a maximum of 20K seats and they were at best 75% full. Furthermore if there were 5k people in general admission walking around, there were a lot!
I admire your positive attitude, but you also need to have a balanced view of the current state of the series. I love the series too, but there are more negative things occurring than positive.
I agree that series evolve and change and CCWS are doing that as well. However, anyone looking at this from a purely analytical point of view can see that the changes are reactive rather then proactive. There isn't a coherent plan or structure. I would dearly like to see the leaders of CCWS prodcuce a plan.