What about group "B" ??

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8th February 2008, 02:55
cosmicpanda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nenukknak

Actually that volatile "rocket fuel" you mention, was in fact less volatile than normal pumpgas. They added stuff to it, (don't know the name right now, will have to look it up) to raise the burning point, so it would ignite at higher temperatures.

So at a very high temperature, ordinary pump gas doesn't burn?
8th February 2008, 06:31
bowler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeve

So now the WRC are as fast as the group B car. But there is not as much accident. Now that we have the technologies, and the knowledge, to go fast without killing ourself, why are the restriction so severe about WRC car? They are occasional accident but mostly it's not because of the car, is it? Why do the FIA don't rearange the restriction for group B?

It is impossible to recreate Group B. The equipment and technology that existed then has been overtaken by what we have now.

Why would anyone want to go back, when the cars that exist now in Group A (WRC) are faster, safer, more fuel efficient and cheaper.

Group B is an interesting part of Rally History, and that is all it will be.
8th February 2008, 06:52
jonkka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeve

300 Hp max? Why? (snip) Do you agree with me such a group would be interesting?

I don't get hard-on from power figures.
8th February 2008, 07:13
janvanvurpa

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

So at a very high temperature, ordinary pump gas doesn't burn?

Right.
At very high temps, it doesn't burn, it explodes and that is much higher pressures and much higher temps.
8th February 2008, 11:23
urabus-denoS2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeve

300 Hp max? Why?

Well not really 300 BHP,I said that only because the FIA says so.
They realistically have around 330-350 BHP.
Citroen always admitted and stated that their Xsara WRC has 315.
I think that the group B should never happen again.Safety first.

And for those of you who say that the tyres should have less grip for spectacular sideways driving,think about what you said.I always say that tyres are the most important part of any car.Tyres save your head.Tyres today are safe and they should be like that.If you reduce grip,you will increase fatal accidents.
You cant just make rally more spectacular by putting the drivers and spectators health on the line...
8th February 2008, 11:53
Nenukknak

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicpanda

So at a very high temperature, ordinary pump gas doesn't burn?

If you raise the point of ignition that means the fuel will ignite at a higher temperature. This means they could raise the compression ratio, run with more turbopressure, etc., which they couldn't do if they used ordinary fuel.
8th February 2008, 12:42
c4

I have put up over 200 links on www.rallyforums.com, in the video section, of mostly rare group B (supercars) stuff.
8th February 2008, 14:48
Zico

Quote:

Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000

And for those of you who say that the tyres should have less grip for spectacular sideways driving,think about what you said.I always say that tyres are the most important part of any car.Tyres save your head.Tyres today are safe and they should be like that.If you reduce grip,you will increase fatal accidents.
You cant just make rally more spectacular by putting the drivers and spectators health on the line...

By the same token.. lowering grip levels reduces overall speed, in turn reducing the risk of a fatal accident... surely ?
8th February 2008, 15:40
iJones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zico

By the same token.. lowering grip levels reduces overall speed, in turn reducing the risk of a fatal accident... surely ?

I would say yes.
8th February 2008, 22:42
urabus-denoS2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zico

By the same token.. lowering grip levels reduces overall speed, in turn reducing the risk of a fatal accident... surely ?

Tyre grip makes the driver feel the car and the surface and is extremely important.
Something about this subject happened at the last rally in Croatia.
A driver chose to use old tyres for only one more stage,so he would save new tyres.The car was an N1 Skoda Fabia.
And it was slower alright...
And he ended up 5 meters by the road in the forest on the roof.He was fighting for the class title and he was driving fast.He entered the corner by the pace notes.He told he would never use an old tyre again...
9th February 2008, 13:02
Zico

Quote:

Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000

Tyre grip makes the driver feel the car and the surface and is extremely important.

Lowering the levels of grip by a percentage wouldnt necessarily remove that feeling. The balance of the car may need to be worked on with maybe a slightly softer set-up to compensate but thats about it..

Quote:

Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000

Something about this subject happened at the last rally in Croatia.
A driver chose to use old tyres for only one more stage,so he would save new tyres.The car was an N1 Skoda Fabia.
And it was slower alright...
And he ended up 5 meters by the road in the forest on the roof.He was fighting for the class title and he was driving fast.He entered the corner by the pace notes.He told he would never use an old tyre again...

Unfortunately accidents are part of the sport and pacenotes are rarely accuate enough to place 100% faith in. When we have accidents its natural to look for a reason or something to blame.. I blamed a rock on the inside of a corner which wasnt on the notes when I rolled spectacularly in Dec.

I've also tested Dunlops and another brand (cant be named for legal reasons) back to back.. While the Dunlops were aprox 1 - 2 secs a mile quicker, you could not really tell from the feeling or lateral grip levels what the car was shod with, just a very slight improvement on hooking up when the diff locked on coming out of the corners.

If the old tyres were to blame for this unfortunate Skoda driver I suggest its because he didnt compensate for a small reduction in grip, something all the teams would learn and be doing in testing if a low grip control tyre was introduced.

In a rally car you are always searching for that level of grip available, it changes with temperature, humidity, road positioning and many other factors, if we used your logic then we should only ever rally in dry consistant conditions. Lack of mechanical or tyre grip is not what proves fatal in an accident, the combination of speed and hitting solid objects are the real killers.
9th February 2008, 23:21
cosmicpanda

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nenukknak

If you raise the point of ignition that means the fuel will ignite at a higher temperature. This means they could raise the compression ratio, run with more turbopressure, etc., which they couldn't do if they used ordinary fuel.

Ah, the point of ignition. Right. :)
9th February 2008, 23:50
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by sollitt

But a word of advice. Don't believe everything you read here.
There are people on this forum who would blame the FIA for their dinner being cold.
There are conspiracy theories trotted out here that the CIA would be proud of, let alone the FIA.

Perhaps true. But I'm sure I saw Max slipping onions into my curry this evening. I hate onions and Max knows it!

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