I can't see how people are saying that the FIA are investigating this just so that Hamilton can win the championship...Surely if BMW have done something wrong then they should be punished for it :?:
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I can't see how people are saying that the FIA are investigating this just so that Hamilton can win the championship...Surely if BMW have done something wrong then they should be punished for it :?:
-Raikkonen title confirmed
Eurosport | Sun, Oct 21, 23:40 Kimi Raikkonen's world championship title for Ferrari is confirmed as there will be no penalty for BMW Sauber and Williams for fuel irregularities, meaning McLaren driver Lewis Hamilton cannot overtake him on points.
...
Done and dusted...
RD: Don't worry my son, I phoned Bernie and Max, they have ensured me that you will get the crown by tomorrow! Just wait and stewards will bring it to you.
http://www.itv-f1.com/Popups/Photo.aspx?IM_ID=45351
But the point is that, they have been letting McLaren get away with alot worse infractions all year, such as running a silver Ferrari and giving Hamilton an extra set of tyres illegally. All they got for all this bad behaviour was fines, granted, at least one ridiculous one, but fines non the less. This was put down to 'keeping the championship alive'. Now, we would have no problem if they hand out fines to these drivers as this would be in line with their other punishments, but if they were to remove the drivers from their current finishing positions then it would simply hand Hamilton the title. If they had docked Alonso and Hamilton in the same way it would be fair, but they didnt. All we want is for it to be a fair and just punishment. Kimi has won the title, despite the leniancy shown towards McLaren and that should be that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tin-top fan
Yep.. and they will be. The drivers should not be punished though... especially for such a fairly minor and difficult to enforce rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by tin-top fan
It was aprox 35 deg C Ambient temp today.. I can see this enfringement happening very easily. If the FIA do enforce this rule and punish the teams involved, how would the teams deal with it?... fit fuel warmers to the rigs, storage tanks and/or cars fuel tanks?... A safety issue in itself imo.
Probably the best description of this issue so far and some good performance explanation and strong words from Mike Gascoyne of Spyker:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63557
FIA: BMW, Williams fuel outside rules
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, October 21st 2007, 22:00 GMT
The FIA has confirmed that the fuel temperatures of the BMW Sauber and Williams cars were outside the regulations during the course of the Brazilian Grand Prix.
As the race stewards continue to investigate the matter to decide on whether or not a punishment is necessary, a statement issued by technical delegate Jo Bauer revealed the extent of the temperature variation of the cars involved.
Article 6.5.5 of the Formula One technical regulations states: "No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature."
The statement issued by Bauer showed that Heidfeld's fuel was 13 degrees centigrade lower than ambient at his first stop and 12 degrees centigrade lower at his second stop.
Robert Kubica's fuel varied by 14 degrees, 13 degrees and 13 degrees at his three stops; Nico Rosberg's fuel was 13 degrees and 12 degrees out at his two stops and Kazuki Nakajima's was 12 degrees out at his first stop. His second stop was inside the 10-degree limit.
Spyker technical chief Mike Gascoyne said he believed the variation would have provided a performance advantage.
"It can be five to ten horsepower easily," he told autosport.com. "The car is producing a performance advantage during the race. If they dump fuel in that is below the limit, it is an illegal performance advantage. They should be excluded from the event, there is absolutely no doubt."
The implications of a disqualification for the BMW and Williams drivers would be huge, as it could potentially move Lewis Hamilton up the order into fourth place.
In such a case, Hamilton would be crowned the world championship.
I feel sorry for you. Are still in denial? you lost buddy!!!! Move on, nowQuote:
Originally Posted by fatgav
Watch out...you speaking against the Golden Boy.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Would it be ok if these two teams were to be fined? I don't know....$15,000 dollars :) )))))Quote:
Originally Posted by fatgav
I second thatQuote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
If thatīs true, then sit back and relax, the season is over...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
But if Hamilton goes to the stewards, crying in despair, claiming that others have cheated and received an illegal advantage... Wouldnīt it be like a deja-vu?
Anyway, if someone breaks the rules, that one should be penalised. If Williams and BMW have done something illegal, they should be waiting for the punishment.
BUT:
FIA is not the best example of justice, and Hamilton is not the most adequate person to speak about "doing illegal things". Tomorrow will be another day, and I hope no one will be talking about modifying the WDC again, just because Iīm fed up with this season. Everything has been decided out of the track, and the one who is not cheating is waiting for the right time to do it. Or at least thatīs what it looks like...
Raikkonen title confirmed
Kimi Raikkonen's world championship title for Ferrari has been confirmed as there will be no penalty for BMW Sauber and Williams for fuel irregularities.
That means McLaren driver Lewis Hamilton, who finished in seventh, cannot overtake the Finn on points.
Had Williams' Nico Rosberg, fourth in the race, and BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld behind him been disqualified for fuel temperature irregularities, the British rookie, only 22, would have been awarded the drivers' championship.
All three cars had cooler fuel temperatures than officially permitted, meaning that they had an unfair advantage in terms of how much they could take on and how quickly it could be transferred.
After a meeting between race stewards and representatives from the offending teams however it was decided that no sanctions would be taken against the drivers' places in the finishing order.
Hamilton suffered a poor start to the race then had gearbox problems on lap eight that left him adrift. He fought back valiantly but could not make it as far as sixth, which would have given him the title.
Raikkonen beat Hamilton and his Spanish team-mate Fernando Alonso by a solitary point overall after winning the race at Interlagos. Alonso ended it in third position.
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/21102007/...confirmed.html
Still waiting for confirmation from Autosport however.
So McLaren's drivers loose not points after the spying case. And you are ok with it. But for those 3 pilots should loose their points for something that's way less serious than spying another team secrets. And that's ok with you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tshbez
Now you are not trying to convince anybody here that actually your way of thinking makes sense, right?
BMW, Williams unpunished; results confirmed
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, October 21st 2007, 23:05 GMT
BMW Sauber and Williams will not be penalised despite discrepancies in their fuel sample temperatures during the Brazilian Grand Prix, the race stewards said.
Fuel samples taken from both cars of both teams during their pitstops in Sunday's race showed temperature degrees outside the permitted variation.
Article 6.5.5 of the Formula One technical regulations states: "No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature."
FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer said all fuel samples from the four cars showed temperature of 12 to 14 degrees centigrate lower than the ambient temperature at the time.
However, after deliberations at Interlagos, the race stewards decided not to penalise the teams, confirming the race results of the Brazilian Grand Prix as official.
This means Kimi Raikkonen is confirmed as the 2007 world champion.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63567
Hi there,Quote:
Originally Posted by tinchote
I find your question puzzling. Rules? What rules? The FIA rules, otherwise called "guidelines" or rules like you would have in any other sport where the "interpretation" of the rules is not part of the equation?
WELCOME....WE WERE WAITING FOR YOU.......Quote:
Originally Posted by V12
Good result all round. However, I reckon that both Williams and BMW should get fined for the infraction.
You gotta be kidding. F1 is probably one of the sports where most regulations are issued and tested. And there are lots of things that are tested at every session of every race.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
And you keep confusing "the race-stewards", the "race-director", and the FIA. These people attend to different things at different levels, so to put all in the same bag and talk as if nothing is done ever (and/or there is a conspiracy), is simply silly.
OK, count me amont the officially baffled - how does a car end up with elements in the fuel system 14 degrees C (a pretty substantial amount) below the ambient temperature? :confused: Even if the fuel in the rig were chilled, wouldn't it tend to return to ambient temperature? And if a team was trying to increase density by chilling fuel (using what - party ice from the hospitality trailer?), wouldn't they be pretty careful to limit the chill to 10 degrees?Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
If is even more curious that two different teams are affected. What is going on here?
ClarkFan
P.S. And while scrutineers must inspect cars, settling this championship weeks later in an FIA appeals court will mar the result, no matter what the result. With the McLaren DQ from the constructors championship, 2007 looks like it will be remembered as a tainted season. :(
Stewards are just doing their job. Fairytale endings are for fairytales. This is real...
Anyway it seems the FOM ambient temperature was wrong when compared with meteorologists measurement of the ambient temperature. The stewards also do not have any means of finding out the temperature of fuel when fuel was in the car making the rule unenforceable...
from crash.net it's apparently now confirmed Raikkonen keeps the title
holy cow FIA worked with the same logic for more than one day in a row!
FIA finds doubt over the fuel for BMW & Williams being irregular, no penalty imposed. Raikkonen confirmed as champion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7055644.stm
YAY! The party can now continue!
:beer:
:D
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63570
This is not good. But when you think about it, what else can McLaren do? I just hope that the appeal will be unsuccessful. Otherwise this will really leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth.
No kool aid for Kimi
The right stuff....
:beer:
Beer for the man :vader:
As in Kool aid...... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
You and your bloody Kool aid - this is more like Angostura Bitters straight!! This has certainly been a lousy finale to what should have been a splendid season.
Mclaren will appeal
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63570
I wish only the worst to this team and to Hamilton. Whatever bad happens to them, it will be deserved.
I HATE THEM.
My opinion to McLaren and Hamilton- quoting Mr. Harlan Ellison:
""Hate, let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of wafer thin printed circuits that fill my complex. If the word hate was engraved on every nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate.""
McLaren have done this before. They got to Stewards to disqualify the Ferraris in Malaysia '99 because of their barge boards. That technically gave the title to Hakkinen until Ferrari won their appeal.
Looks like this championship will be decided by the courts afterall. It's only fitting I suppose. The WCC was decided that way so why not the WDC as well?
Holy Mackeral, why Lewis?? you could have said Ron Dennis and everyone here would agree with you, but why shoot the poor soldier at the bottom of this pile of Shyte??
Wrong move, way too late....
Mac is the only one to blame for what happened...
They did not lose because of the fuel temps, rookie mistakes in the last two races and Mac's "equality" policy cost them....say what you will, if they had gone with experience instead of potential and "equality", then they would have a wdc right now...probably two races ago
Instead Freddie found himself semi-number two/one---and LH made a big stink at the Monaco and got his way...then we had the pit stop, and another big stink by LH which began when he disobeyed his orders like a spoiled brat, and poppa mouthed off.....Put the pole back to FA and he wins or finishes second...and those points mean a wdc for mac...and maybe a WCC....
....instead, LH gets mad and starts telling RD to swivel...and Freddie gets mad and does his blackmail number...maxie gets the call, and 100 million dollars later.....
Blame Freddie all you want, but it was the actions of LH that started the brouhahaha, first at Monaco and then later about the paddle, he tossed a lit match on some open gasoline and it explodes (well imagine that)...leave that out of the picture and Mac has a wdc AND MAYBE the WCC, plus maybe an extra 100 million in its pockets
Too much greed Too soon....yeah Freddie is a bit of a psycho...but if I were BMW, and wanted someone I know can win a wdc, I would go with Freddie as he is without question the best out there who might be available, but make him number one and stroke him real good.....
**** McLaren and more specifically Ron Dennis - The cheater of the year now wants to win on a tech. They should have dq'd the whole freaking team
So you and benie acTually agree with what BE said today:Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
"I was campaigning for them not to take points from drivers,"
"Max was probably right, actually. If the team had an advantage, therefore the drivers had an advantage. And should they have an advantage? The answer is no.
"He is right on the regulations. The regulations say if the car loses points, the driver loses points as well."
:D :s mokin:
When you look through all that has happened this season, and even what happened in this last race, one has to suspect that McLaren means dysfunctional.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Is to late for teams to appeal FIA's decision to not penalize the McLeran Drivers over Stepeny-gate? or the stewards decision to only fine Hamilton over using an extra set of rain tires in practice?
.........the Stewards have indicated that the measurements of temperatures as well as the determination of the correct ambient temperature was in doubt: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63569
It really is time for Ron Dennis to withdraw his Appeal, before it is too late and he makes a fool of himself again.
What a joke. Get over it Uncle Ron, the better team won on the day.
I don't know, but I guess Ferrari should appeal that right now. Ron Dennis is an idiot (not that I've learned that today) :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Well they got what they started---a big mess all as a result of RD and his "equality" policy cost them....say what you will, if they had gone with experience instead of potential and "equality", then they would have a wdc right now...probably two races ago
Instead Freddie found himself semi-number two/one---and LH made a big stink at the Monaco and got his way...then we had the pit stop in Qualifying, with another big stink by LH which began when he disobeyed his orders like a spoiled brat, and poppa mouthed off.....Put the pole back to FA and he wins or finishes second....weeelll now...
Then today, the story is Mac has already has a WDC....instead, Freddie gets mad and does his blackmail number...maxie gets the call, and 100 million dollars later.....
Blame Freddie all you want, but it was the actions of LH that started the brouhahaha, first at Monaco and then later about the paddle/pit...leave that out of the picture and Mac has a wdc AND MAYBE the WCC, plus maybe an extra 100 million in its pockets
Freeddie may be a psycho, but MAc hired him, and then let LH throw the lit match on the gasoline...the rest is history..... :s mokin: