Rumours in Gran Canaria about two possible private entry in Rally Islas Canarias next year:
Luís Monzón and Cohete Suárez, both with Rally 1
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Rumours in Gran Canaria about two possible private entry in Rally Islas Canarias next year:
Luís Monzón and Cohete Suárez, both with Rally 1
hybrids out for good.... or in two weeks they are going to decide keep it again?
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...2025/10670868/
Before official decision there will be:Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
- hybrid will still be used
- Hyundai will leave if they don't like smth
- hybrid will be cancelled
- hyundai's future in wrc looks promising
- no next spec car detail until end of 2025
- there is no issues with current manus, we decided to keep the spec same till 2030
- points system will be changed, but nobody knows how, but it will be changed
At the end.. 2025 Monte starts.. and the only change is that wrc teams can have vegan-only meals during rallies and allLive will have mandarin and swahili subtitles.
you forgot that AllLive will probably be worse and will lag even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
WRC.com are wrong then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
"Toyota team principal Jari-Matti Latvala is looking forward to being behind the wheel himself more next season, with the potential for a title tilt at the European Historic Championship crown."
It probably depends on which car he chooses. Looking at the other cars in the EHC, the Celica GT-Four ST165 must be eligible, it's from the late 80's. Not sure if the GT-Four ST185 or anything more modern is eligible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Latvala will tackle next year’s European series at the wheel of a Toyota Celica Turbo 4WD, a car permitted to run in FIA-sanctioned events following a decision from last month’s World Motor Sport Council.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Talking about that decision, Latvala said: “It’s good news. I mean getting cars now in the historic rally up to year 2000, we have some great cars in the ’90s, the Group A cars and the first World Rally Cars. They’ve been kept now a little bit on the side and I think there is a lot of fans who really wants to see these cars on the action.
“I’m one of those and I’m really happy that I’ve been building now a Celica ST185 so then I can compete in the European Championship with that car.”
Probably the GT-Four ST185 (or Turbo 4WD in some countries) just became eligible... I see some Sierra Cosworth 4x4 in the results, from 1990. The ST185 should be from 1992, so it could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Aero implications of Rally1 dehybridisation by WRCWings:
"In summary, drivers will have to get used to slower cars with less aero contribution, which means that the non-hybrid cars will become less effective and less spectacular, at least on some terrains.'
https://www.wrcwings.tech/2024/11/12...hybridisation/
Thats the question if less power and less aero means less spectacular...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Will they be less power?
They could easily change the restrictor to compensate for the loss of the hybrid...
I don't see them doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
https://www.speedweek.com/wrc/news/2...schlossen.html
According to this (in German), Hybrid is out for 2025.
I find wrcwings entertaining, but there are a few things wrong here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
First of the aero parts on Rally cars are designed to work in a certain range of speed, compared to racing cars the speed range is very low. I'd bet that the slower (or only slightly slower if that, depending if the cars don't require ballast) acceleration out of slow corners won't make a huge difference on how the aero performs. Generally we've seen that drivers don't loose a huge amount of time on most stages when they loose the MGU (see Fourmaux comments at CER about setup vs loss of extra power).
The higher aerodynamic efficiency should of course be true.
The effect of the rear fans is massively overestimated I think. Those fans very likely don't run at a high enough rpm to do a whole lot and they are just normal cooling fans right? To have big effect, they'd have to have a different geometry and run much faster. I think the current fans are more like the one on the McLaren F1 roadcar, whick basically elongated the diffuser artificially. The fact that teams are willing to ditch one fan is proof that they are not a really a big contributer on the aero load. Toyota would have otherwise ended up with a uneven load distribution which you really wouldn't want unless you are on an oval.
Yes I thought that. The Rally1 cars have actually been called a bit boring, with all the aero nailing them to the road. Some actually think Rally2 cars are more fun and at the limit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
This guy knows his stuff and been studying aero for years, so I'd be careful of being critical. Interesting comments though.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
Of course the slower acceleration wont affect the aero effect so much as it's at lower speeds. Its mainly on the high speed sections where the aero really works and lack of hybrid cooling vents will be affecting it much more.
I guess this is why some drivers have complained with the lack of time to properly test the cars' before Monte 2025. As well as performance changing there is also the safety aspect of trusting it at high-speed.
These drivers will complain of course.
But they have no safety concerns driving with half a wing, missing a bumper or half the panels off the car…
If all cars are Hybrid they are spectacular and those without are sadly in the shadow. If all the cars will be without the unit, they will be spectacular, again over Rally2. If that last category would be the top, I'm pretty sure most of front guys would make them spectacular, because there would not be nothing to compare to, except Rally3 and so on. That's why Rally1- and Rally2+ would never work and that's why multi-power unit thing probaby won't work too (I had exact opposite opinion a while ago). At the end no matter what we end up, I just hope it's worth it for us to watch, to bring new teams, drivers, sponsors, events and spectacle.
Show me a (regular or even harscore) fan, who (without knowing) can clearly see and say that this car drove by without hybrid..
Look videos of Sesks from Poland, can't say his driving looked crap and not enjoyable..
I'm certainly not claiming that their analysis and description how parts work or influence airflow is wrong. I just think there is at times a overestimation of how much load is produced or how much influence certain aspects have on the general load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
But this is a general misconception in regards of aero, people talk about down force on roadcars, yet 99% of roadcars produce lift. A small spoiler does not automatically produce down force, it just reduces lift for example.
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
That may well be the case, but he's very good at spinning out the obvious without giving any real conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
That article basically says:
Without hybrid the cars will be slower & if they go slower the aero will give less downforce - he doesn't quantify, because he doesn't know how much.
It then goes on:
Without the hybrid there won't be any need for the cooling ducts so the aero will be beter. Again no attempt to quantify & no attempt to say whether the improvement in aero due to removing the hybrid cooling will be more or less than any loss due to lack of speed.
You might just as well say that the cars will be slower with full fuel tanks. It's all too superficial to learn anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icOagwiwpC8Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Completely agree and why I've wanted to see Rally2 as top class for a while - I do get the 'it might make costs spiral' argument (which I'm not convinced on, but it's plausible), but not so much the cars being unspectacular, because the drivers make the cars spectacular.
When you watch the top guys really pushing Rally2's they are plenty spectacular, especially when they have a bit less - go watch Neuville's various runs in R5s and Rally2s in Ypres; car moves around more, has less rear grip.
That hope is gone, but for me it's the drivers that make the cars spectacular at the top 4wd level, with how far they're willing and able to push them beyond their limit.
He does make some conclusions though, even if the amounts aren't yet quantifiable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
And when teams make regular changes to such small things as door mirror design, you have to admit that these new changes will be seen as having a significant effect on the cars' (in perfect condition).
''We have officially signed a contract with the WRC Promoter for organizing the European Rally Championship (ERC) in 2025 and the World Rally Championship (WRC) in 2026 and 2027. The ERC Croatia Rally will take place in October 2025, while the WRC event will continue to be hosted in April as in previous years.'' official Croatia Rally FB account.
This start to become massive BS - i like Fourmaux, but after one plus minus decent season to play this all out like he would be some kind of superstart, might turn into some PR disaster. He has not won a rally yet. What if he switches to Hyundai, but would not be able to drive it ( number of those who failed is bigger than those who mastered it). All this smoke 2 months till new seasons is bad PR to all, including M-Sport.
And also just for one season. He will surely not be in the mix straight away. Look how much Tanak did need to adapt to drive that car. Even this year he looked like he would waste another season try to managing i20.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersX
Adrien also saying that he haven got M-Sport offer yet. So if that moment was before he publicly say he know where he will drive then, it's sure it's Hyundai. But M-Sport is trying to find a budget every year and it's understandable to be the last at the party.
Well, his call. I hope that at least M-Sport would get something from rival team.
Adrien quickly becoming boring. I hope he stays at M-sport
People, this series is made by the promoter and focused on M-Sport. I can't believe its airing any surprise that could generate any friction. If this is on YouTube, whatever contract formaux has signed, is already inked.
To make cars look spectacular we just need good drivers and a lot of sound. Actual speed is almost impossible to see to humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge33cymru
So basically with Croatia in the 2026 Calendar, most slots of that year are closed no? Apart from CER? Is there any round that currently doesn't have a valid contract for 2026? Meaning the streak of 7 consecutive gravel events will likely continue into 2026?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
This has been my view for years. A 2003 WRC car was probably slower than a modern Rally 2 car, and in terms of sound they are mostly on par. Would anyone say the 2003 season was boring? No, because there we 6 manufacturer teams, a handful of decent privateers in decent cars giving us 20+ top level cars at each event, 6 different rally winners in 4 different manufacturer's cars, and about 8 drivers at the start of the season who were capable of winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge33cymru
The endless search for speed and power is the WRCs downfall. Quite frankly, as a fan, i couldn't care less if the hybrid unit is fitted.
Hybrid OUT from 2025!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybri...cars-for-2025/
WRC - Rally1 spectacle maintained following technical changes
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...?itok=ca_OgKFn
Rally1 cars will continue to excite fans across the globe in 2025, while providing improved accessibility and affordability for drivers and teams aiming to compete at the top level of the FIA World Rally Championship.
Utilising 100 per cent sustainable fuel, Rally1 cars will be lighter, easier to drive, less complex to maintain, cheaper to use, but just as spectacular to watch when the 2025 season fires up on Rallye Monte-Carlo in January.
Changes to the WRC’s technical regulations, proposed by the WRC Commission after they received support from its members and approved by the FIA World Motor Sport Council via an electronic vote that concluded today, Friday 15 November, confirm that Rally1 cars will no longer use the existing plug-in hybrid units from next year.
At the same time, pausing the use of hybrid technology allows teams and manufacturers to reduce their overall expenditure. Drivers stepping up to the WRC’s top tier will also benefit from simplified transition from Rally2 level.
Indeed, on the WRC-counting ORLEN 80th Rally Poland in June, Mārtiṇš Sesks demonstrated the potential of the concept as he set four top-three stage times and held second place for three stages during his Rally1 debut driving a Ford Puma with ballast fitted in lieu of using a plug-in hybrid unit.
From 2025, the minimum weight of Rally1 cars will be lowered from 1260 kilograms to 1180 kilograms and the air restrictor size reduced from 36mm to 35mm to maintain an equivalent power-to-weight ratio between the 2024 and 2025 vehicles.
FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem said: "The rich heritage and unique appeal of this sport, which is so dear to my heart, are invaluable, and we are committed to safeguarding its future. This development is important not only for the championship's stakeholders to adapt to the evolving energy landscape, but also for containing costs. By focusing on sustainable fuel and simplifying car technology, we’re ensuring the WRC remains captivating for fans and achievable for competitors.”
FIA Chief Technical and Safety Officer Xavier Mestelan-Pinon said: “Following extensive dialogue with key stakeholders, it became clear that continuing to use the plug-in hybrid units provided under the existing supplier agreement was no longer in the best interests of the FIA World Rally Championship. We can now move forward in full confidence that the WRC becomes even better and stronger, with developments that are in line with the working perspective for the 2027 technical regulations. Once again, we have highlighted the championship’s ability to adapt without diluting the sporting spectacle, while responsibly embracing the challenges of our times. We are also pleased that the use of 100 per cent sustainable fuel remains a cornerstone of the championship’s commitment to reducing its environmental impact.”
https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally1-...hnical-changes
Finally. It was about time. Hope that teams will have enough time to prepare, and not have so much technical issues in Monte already because of that.
Just a little(!) shame, they’re reducing the turbo restrictor from 36 to 35mm although I doubt it will change much in terms of sound (& Power) for next year; Would’ve liked to see them retain the amount of power they had back in 2017-2021, none the less, I’m glad they got rid of the hybrid. As a side bonus we’ll (hopefully) get to see the numbers back on the doors and the telemetry will (hopefully) be easier to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
So the lower weight limit means the dummy hybrid ballast is no longer needed ? Didnt they say the cars needed this as the cars were designed for it and its effect on their balance?