I would imagine the Saudi deal will probably pay for teams transportation, travel etc, they can afford it.
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I would imagine the Saudi deal will probably pay for teams transportation, travel etc, they can afford it.
If anyone is interested in giving it a read, I happened upon the previous (2020-2022) Sardinia deal while googling for other stuff.
https://www.aci.it/laci/la-federazio...0AGREEMENT.pdf
Neuville gonna win sunday beacuse of dust 🤣
What have you done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrvold
10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.
A 10 year deal for an event that hasn't even ran yet ;) At least they've got money to hire people to make something happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal yet again
Everything is possible when you're the FIA & WRC promoter, apart from sorting basic stuff out and getting another manufacturer invloved in the sport, that's a bit too much for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal yet again
The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal yet again
Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.
They did say they’ll be in the MERC at the beginning of next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by J4MIE
Also regarding the rally (& the corruption behind it):
https://yle.fi/a/74-20091834
Last version in a log line of sport-washing events in that region.
Why do they get event after event, the people that decide need to look behind the facade!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro16
Yes March will be candidate/MERC event, full event in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Money talks…Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
There's two points to make here people aren't getting: 1) Saudi is experiencing growth, diversification, investment and social change. Europe has peaked and is facing decline. 2) It's a commercial World series, not a European sport, and it's in decline which is linked to being too European. Those are at the crux of this deal.
Within this series the UK, France, Germany, Spain (soon Italy ?), have all lost their events before Saudi was even announced, and commercial attempts are struggling to gain feasibility. Enough remain, some at a cost for the Promotor, but still, Saudi is expanding the WRC calendar and won't be taking another's slot. 10 years is unprecedented, but it may just have been necessary to save the series. It may have been enough to kill the urgency of the changes by the working group. It may have enabled Hyundai to remain, or the promoter's ability to field them or other participants. OK, the FIA could try going to a Rally2 privateer, non-commercial, European based series instead - but it has chosen not to do that.
We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.
As far as I know, Saudi Arabia hosted one single MERC in its history, in 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by J4MIE
I disagree. Only few fans who are obsessed with "too much Europe, we need to go to USA/India/Saudi etc."Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Sure, the manufacturers could like one or two more rallies in their own key markets, but after that they'd soon complain about the series being too expensive because it goes to the four corners of the map - and probably the lack of visibility in those new countries, because too few people care to begin with.
Rallying is a European sport whether one likes it or not, and it's called world championship because it goes to the best international rallies around the globe, which include extra European events like Safari, NZ etc... lower the standard of those extra European events and even less people will care.
France has Monte, Germany has CER, Spain will have Canarias, maybe Italy will have Roma, all very popular rallies...Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
I don't particularly care for what the Saudi law is. I have my doubts they can organize a decent rally, both in terms of spectacle and the organization itself. They barely ever hosted a MERC rally, and have you ever seen footage of MERC rallies? For the vast majority a borefest in flat, barren landscape. IF they can put up a nice rally then nice, but signing a 10 years contract is silly. We all know, money talks.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Also that's such a bad mentality in my opinion. Complaining is the first step to change. Nobody ever complains, nothing ever changes, unless the ones above decide so. A bit like saying to all the fans who want 100 events outside of Europe to leave because they're insignificant and don't belong to such an European sport.
Sometimes. Quite often complaining is done instead of making first steps to change things, kind of shifting-blame excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Even if Saudi round would be boring and/or poorly organized, for WRC and teams it probably will be financially beneficial anyway and it can lead to fans being less depressed about state of this series as a whole. Saudis tend to overpaid in sports.
MERC rallies in Kuwait or Qatar are flat borefests but in contrast to them, Saudi Arabia is not all flat desert. They have some roads similar to those used in Jordan Rally.
Saudi landscape is stunning, we all have seen that in Dakar. From Picture Perfect point of view - will be good. Diversity of scenery - also will be good. Might even collect many spectators. Might even be the most spectator friendly event due to the wide access from everywhere with the proper car. Moral aspect is different matter here. We have seen that in FIA this part had never been an issue. Obviously Saudi investment will release and ease up some existential pressure of this beautiful motorsport. Let us wait and see where all this goes. I guess they will hire some European rally organization team to run the event.
Middle Eastern money though has been around for a while and didnt hear of that many people walking away when Citroen were backed by Abu Dhabi and Ford by Qatar both countries with issues around rights for certain parts of society. FFS the WRC went to China in the past!
I share some of the disappointment that has been expressed elsewhere but we have an FIA President from that part of the world and a promoter chasing $ over heritage so it was inevitable.
It's funny that I've had a couple discussions you could say, on social media with people who complain that Saudi is in. Boycott this, won't support that, I'm out (!) and Money talks etc. And how other countries should have the event over Saudi due to their human rights, women's rights etc.
Since 2018, the Kingdom has progressed and changed. Fact. Yes there might be some topics of cultural differences ie Death penalty for example for crimes - but you know, there still are other places in the world for example Indonesia, which everyone flocks to Bali for holidays or is seen as one of the worlds top destinations.
K.S.A is run with a religious rule but is becoming lenient. Many countries are strict with law, you wouldn't go to Singapore and chew gum would you? It is a crime but no one is up in arms over this. Or visiting South East Asia and poking at Royal members...
Others I've discussed with have mentioned that Paraguay should be in the calendar. But what people don't know is that corruption remains widespread as well as organized crime, environmental destruction, systemic discrimination damage to the rights of rural and Indigenous populations continues to occur. Poverty and gender-based discrimination limits rights of women and children is going on as well.
Australia? Lack of government (federal and local) support for (motor) sporting that includes local population/residents and tax payers. Don't forget sponsors don't seem to have any interest in major sporting events or NZ for a world scale event unlike F1. Australians prefer football, soccer, tennis - you now 'athlete' physical sport.
I would categorise this paragraph under "Human Rights" be present or from the past:
Please don't get me started on what really is going on in Australia. There is no indigenous voice in government that is acknowledged. And no apology unlike Canada to it's indigenous people for when the British came, colonised, raped women, stole children and shipped them off to other parts of the country to educate them to be more "white" and never see their families again. Recently, a national vote ended up in disaster with a massive NO. Australia is one of the most diverse nations in the world yet is systematically Racist. We also have a housing shortage where yes, people are living in their cars, or tents in parks, in cities; have no rental homes or tenancies available and when they are available - the prices are over more than double what they were pre-2020. So completely unaffordable. You know how Americans live in carparks... same here! There is a high rate of Domestic Violence which of late, is becoming more of an issue than anything else.
How can a nation rich in resources and money treat its people, native or current immigrants so poorly? People speak of human rights... basic human rights.
Someone name me a country where there is no crime, housing problems, politics, corruption, funding, support and what some might call "Sport Washing".
If you really look hard, you'll see, no country or region is has clean hands.
Yes, but WRC doesn't go on the dunes of the Empty Quarter. How are their gravel roads that are suitable for a rally car? Hard to tell, because they don't even have a MERC round to take as example. Jordan Rally wasn't too bad, but most of MERC rallies I've seen footage of are very, very boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersX
Weren't Jordan's roads built for the rally?
Emm, let me remind you the Cyprus Rally is also part of the championship and the last thing you can say about it is ‘boring’.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Same with Mexico, if you didn't know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that. Lebanon is also in MERC and it's a rather twisty asphalt rally, also not in consideration. The typical MERC rallies (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait etc.) are mostly flat roads in barren landscape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
It’s a shame that it isn’t; for the less than 10 years that it ran it was a joy to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Source for this, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
That I don't remember. But purpose built roads aren't an issue for me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
I haven't watched any of the F1 races in Saudi. I have not watched FE there, nor "Dakar". I will happily skip the WRC event there as well, even though I've watched every stage from rallies on rally.tv (or WRC + / All Live) for a while now. Not all live, but also re-live.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Doesn't really have to be "political" in that sense either. For me it is quite simple. I've bought an apartment and a double bed together with another dude. That's enough to get me jailed. That's just not something I can ignore.
As a political-ish thing. There's still this feeling among many racers and kids in karting/crosskart that not being straight means you cannot succeed in motorsport. I do know one or more, that decided to "live hetero" as they feel that just being who they really are will remove all chances of keeping a seat. Or those who simply just stop racing/rallying due to it.
While it is more of a circuit racing thing, with the wag-cams and "girlfriend of" stuff, which I don't get why is a thing, I watch for the motorsport, not to look at people, it makes it quite clear that if a driver ends up with a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. That will be an issue at certain events. So, don't be who you are to participate is a great thing to promote.
So now politics has been an component in discussions on where to have rallies or not...
I don´t like it...
I know, I know, money rules. And guys in the top are like politicians for sure. To me quality of event is the importance not to rule out.
"Rally Saudi Arabia is set to host the final round of next year’s expected 14-event championship in November and could be set to hold that berth for the next five years at least."Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
Autosport
Calendar should be done, TH at Autosport part of the circus. I trust this until it's proven wrong not right.
Personally I'm more disappointed that Japan isn't the last rally of the season anymore. Controversial, I guess, but I love Japan and it's crazy weather and narrow roads, and I also enjoyed that the first and last rallies of the season were both held on tarmac. It was good while it lasted...
I'm more disapointed that Japan didn't capatlize on the fact it's a tarmac event and gave us night stages (and lots of them), which would be wayyyy more convinenet for every one watching in the old continent, espcially when you consider it being the season finale.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve.mandzij
Agree in the main, however I make a distinction between the sport and the series, and I meant that the series is in decline because of being too linked to Europe, not the sport. That has nothing to do with any fan's opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
ACM has Monte and is in WRC for free/super low fee which the promoter has to compensate somewhere else. Germany has 1/3rd of CER and I'm not convinced it's a great earner for promoter either with being local. Canarias is a local organiser - I admit I don't know the support details on this for WRC, let's hope it lasts. Ireland also couldn't get theirs to pay. It's not a point about physical location - it's about decline of the ASN's abilities or desire to stage events like how it was in the past up until recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
This is how I don't think people are getting my 2) point. You have no right to force change, it's not a democracy, you're not a shareholder. You will only ever be a consumer until the day you stop consuming. If you let the payment go through but signal you're not buying into it - and to the wrong people - you're a hypocrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Given how late calendars for past two years have been published, I doubt that calendar is anywhere near done as we speak. It's good of you to have so much trust, I only believe in things when I see them and even then half of what I see are likely to be hoaxes. Anyway, thanks for source, I'll be keeping an eye on this matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Can I ask what your basis for saying the 'series is in decline'? I just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Is it just a judgement based purely because of 8 - 10 factory entered cars? Or is it evidence on audience / financial etc?
Because WRC2 seems to be booming, so is JWRC, and I don't see any evidence of decline in spectators numbers.....
WRC2 and JWRC aren't significant earners for the series - JWRC isn't even WRC Promoter's and 4 of those entries are backed by FIA. At least in theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
Something I keep coming back to in multiple threads is that there is no series without the Rally1 class. Whether that's big money manufacturers as tradition, the promotor's own entries in an FIA branded car with other revenue, or somewhere in between like now.
(European) Manufacturers don't want to take part.
(European) Rallies can't or don't want to take part.
('' '') World Champions are reluctant to take part.
If the promoter has to stage the full show in the future - that is provide the cars, drivers and stages - it needs the revenue from other sources.
Where some European state ASNs are backing entries now in any class - how long can it realistically continue when the outlook doesn't look good?
Ireland back as a possibility for 2026?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorspo...s/cz55pkmyp8ro
Oh look, another article on a potential round in Ireland. Only heard similar articles for the past 4years or so....Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
Oh look another chance for er88 to slap down any positivity concerning the UK / Ireland chances.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
At least the Irish are seriously trying and there is a real.possibility the WRC may come. The MI Rally Academy is doing well by supporting their drivers and the whole scene there is desperate to get the WRC back.
Not sure I see the positivity - these checks were meant to have been don's before the last decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
A lot of young Irish are funded by a very very very very very (very) rich individual, not by the sport in Ireland itself.