2021 Race 10 - British Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by Sulland

What kind of sanctions does the jury have to their disposal?

in my books this is a very serious incident, where Verstappen easily could have been killed, had the car hit the wall in a different angle or Max`s head first if car flipped.

Then Hamilton almost did the same again passing Leclerc.

In my book Hamilton is getting to desperat to win, and is now reckless. And the penalty was imo to small. You need to think potential consequenses in these cornering speeds.

Hopefully cornerimg speed will go down with the 2022 cars.

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Yea yea

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

10 seconds to take my rival out? Don't mind if I do. What a joke of a penalty.

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I suppose he should have been banned from racing ever again. That would fit the crime perfectly don't you think.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Yep, its interesting that Lewis himself doesn't actually blame Max anymore and has backtracked a bit... he went from saying "he turned in to me" to.. "I was pretty far alongside him but I could see he wasn't going to back out, but then we went into the corner and we collided. Of course that's never the way I want to win a race or just in general to race, but these things do happen. I just hope he's OK. And I look forward to many more races."

After watching it a few times I also changed my mind from that Max was more fault so I guess Lewis and I are more on the same page than you are.

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You are going with your emotional perception of what was said and also out of context as well rather than objectively looking at the incident and honestly judging what you think really happened. What you offer here is pure prejudice.

Can't wait to see Hamilton get put into a wall, and that's coming from a Brit.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Can't wait to see Hamilton get put into a wall, and that's coming from a Brit.

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Well , that's a pretty crappy thing to say .
Especially from a first-posting Brit .

Go away if that's all you have , and that's from a Canadian .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Well , that's a pretty crappy thing to say .
Especially from a first-posting Brit .

Go away if that's all you have , and that's from a Canadian .

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Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

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Looks like somebody's had their first pint.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Looks like somebody's had their first pint.

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Not at all, just annoyed the way Sir Lewis Hamilton can get away with nearly killing a guy and still be allowed to win the race. Now he's the victim of course because of online abuse he received.

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Wheel to wheel aggressive racing. Two of the top competitors, doing what needs to be done to get the lead. No malice intended by either, just a racing incident. If it deserves a penalty by the steward’s determination, so be it. And, let’s be consistent.

"...I could see he wasn't going to back out..."

I could see that , too .

The main difference between the inside moves on Max and Chuck for Lewis was that Max kept Lewis tight going into the corner .
That was deliberate and reasonable , as it's meant to put the opponent out of position to make the corner .

Chuck was much wider on the way in , which allowed Lewis a line to pass tight across the apex , ahead .

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

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Nice entrance , Joe .
You can have your opinion on Lewis , and it can be as vitriolic as you like , but suggesting he be "put into a wall" is going too far .

Happy to see a new poster , but try and keep it civil , eh ?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Nice entrance , Joe .
You can have your opinion on Lewis , and it can be as vitriolic as you like , but suggesting he be "put into a wall" is going too far .

Happy to see a new poster , but try and keep it civil , eh ?

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Thanks
I hope he goes in like a dart.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Thanks
I hope he goes in like a dart.

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So , you can't even make that tiny adjustment ?
Sad .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

So , you can't even make that tiny adjustment ?
Sad .

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Mate, I'm no gonna change my opinion. He's went back to the driving style of a desperate man like he was when rosberg was beating him, dangerous and reckless. He's one of the luckiest drivers to get into the game also.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

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We don't stand for airheads like you on this forum. Take your hatred elsewhere, we don't want it here.

Ooh your hard. https://media0.giphy.com/media/WUMKr...giphy.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Mate, I'm no gonna change my opinion. He's went back to the driving style of a desperate man like he was when rosberg was beating him, dangerous and reckless. He's one of the luckiest drivers to get into the game also.

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You are entitled to your opinion. It may be as controversial as you want. But we have to draw the line on an outright show of hatred. Online abuse and hatred of sports personalities have to stop.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Ooh your hard. https://media0.giphy.com/media/WUMKr...giphy.gif&ct=g

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I am sure Gervais would not appreciate you using his image for online hatred attacks. From another Brit, l am very disappointed in you mate.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Looks like somebody's had their first pint.

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Probably had a pint and snort.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I am sure Gervais would not appreciate you using his image for online hatred attacks. From another Brit, l am very disappointed in you mate.

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Saying your hard is a hatred attack now? Ffs haha

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

You are entitled to your opinion. It may be as controversial as you want. But we have to draw the line on an outright show of hatred. Online abuse and hatred of sports personalities have to stop.

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Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

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Nobody wants a racing driver to die while racing which is why there are safety procedures and rules in F1. This championship battle between Redbull and Mercedes or Hamilton and Verstappen was gloves off this silverstone weekend. They have to start racing each other with a little more respect to avoid this situation from repeating itself. We are lucky this time, next time may not be so forgiving.

That said, please try to contain your feelings about the racing. It comes across in a very bad light.

I like to welcome you to this brilliant forum where you would find some very varied perspectives of the unfolding events of this seasons racing. Feel free to add yours to it.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Nobody wants a racing driver to die while racing which is why there are safety procedures and rules in F1. This championship battle between Redbull and Mercedes or Hamilton and Verstappen was gloves off this silverstone weekend. They have to start racing each other with a little more respect to avoid this situation from repeating itself. We are lucky this time, next time may not be so forgiving.

That said, please try to contain your feelings about the racing. It comes across in a very bad light.

I like to welcome you to this brilliant forum where you would find some very varied perspectives of the unfolding events of this seasons racing. Feel free to add yours to it.

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Thanks for the welcome. Still wonder what you opinion would be if it had been more serious. I think max is lucky to come away unscathed

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

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I'd like to ask you the opposite .
Would you ask for Lewis to be put in the wall if Max had not hit the wall at 52gs ?

You can hate him all you like , but it's a little hollow if you don't join in the discussion about the things he does .

My beef with you is only about your suggestion that he should be hurt or killed for his indiscretion .
Even Marko didn't go that far .

I've been here on this forum for over 20 years and that kind of suggestion has never been tolerated .
It just isn't cool here .


But , we're up for some spirited debate .
I just happen to agree with you that Hammy was to blame here , by the way .

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

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I, for one, would have felt exactly the same if Max had died because I'm not leading with my emotions. Max dying would not have changed the fact that he could have given Lewis more room, nor would it change that Lewis missed the corner apex. The real question here is whether or not there was intent and it's pretty clear there was none from either driver but both were in the wrong, hence, a racing incident.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I'd like to ask you the opposite .
Would you ask for Lewis to be put in the wall if Max had not hit the wall at 52gs ?

You can hate him all you like , but it's a little hollow if you don't join in the discussion about the things he does .

My beef with you is only about your suggestion that he should be hurt or killed for his indiscretion .
Even Marko didn't go that far .

I've been here on this forum for over 20 years and that kind of suggestion has never been tolerated .
It just isn't cool here .


But , we're up for some spirited debate .
I just happen to agree with you that Hammy was to blame here , by the way .

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I didn't say he should be hurt or killed, you've put words in my mouth, I said I wanted him into the wall. How you got I wanted him hurt or killed from that I don't know. I'd never want to see someone hurt or killed even if it's the driver I dislike the most. I'd love to see him try another move and come off worse and go into the wall.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I, for one, would have felt exactly the same if Max had died because I'm not leading with my emotions. Max dying would not have changed the fact that he could have given Lewis more room, nor would it change that Lewis missed the corner apex. The real question here is whether or not there was intent and it's pretty clear there was none from either driver but both were in the wrong, hence, a racing incident.

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No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5afad5ffd.jpg

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5afad5ffd.jpg

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Look at all the room on the left Max has compared with Lewis. That's why he shares his proportion of the blame.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Look at all the room on the left Max has compared with Lewis. That's why he shares his proportion of the blame.

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He left room, Lewis missed apex and understeered into max.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Thanks for the welcome. Still wonder what you opinion would be if it had been more serious. I think max is lucky to come away unscathed

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I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

"...I could see he wasn't going to back out..."

I could see that , too .

The main difference between the inside moves on Max and Chuck for Lewis was that Max kept Lewis tight going into the corner .
That was deliberate and reasonable , as it's meant to put the opponent out of position to make the corner .

Chuck was much wider on the way in , which allowed Lewis a line to pass tight across the apex , ahead .

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I thought he was already too committed to get out of it. Either way, it was going to be a crash

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

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I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5afad5ffd.jpg

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Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact. Well, Hamilton has had enough of Verstappen's overly aggressive driving. As Vettel did in 2018.

I am not trying to say Hamilton is faultless in the accident. I am saying he had to make a point that being gentlemanly while racing in corners is no indication of weakness. To suggest that he should back off is unreasonable. It is a championship battle afterall.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

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But there are and always so. It even happened on the first lap between Russell and Sainz l think.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact.

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Was he?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...be47ada678.jpg

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

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I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

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Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

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That was not my intention, l meant to ask an honest question.

With Hamilton's trajectory coming from close to the wall, there no way he could take any avoiding action. Especially as the steering video showed him at full rightward lock. There was enough outcry to force the stewards to give penalty. It was really a racing incident. Many that want to apportion the blame onesidedly do so from an emotional perspective. It was racing pure and true.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

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The visual image of the high speed crash into the wall instantly provoked enough reaction. I have a feeling that the stewards were taken by the graphic of the crash into the barrier in their decision to award a penalty. In this situation, how much penalty to award is perceived differently by all stakeholders involved. The stewards thought 10 seconds, Mercedes thought zero and Redbull thought a stop and go penalty of 10 seconds.


If you look at all of these perspectives, then you find that the teams were only concerned with point losses and how to limit the damage. A stop and go would have reduced the point losses for Redbull. Mercedes were of course concerned about catching up to Redbull in the constructors and driver championships. The stewards have to be seen to be doing something as declaring a racing incident would invoke the wraft of Redbull's very outspoken criticism.

It was a done deal that there was going to be some sort of punishment. Hence, it came as no surprise to Hamilton when he was informed.

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Originally Posted by joe1888cfc

Was he?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...be47ada678.jpg

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The right pic was just after the contact. You can clearly see the Redbull was beginning to spin. Have a look at Karun Chandhoks analysis of the incident on the skysport website.