YLE Sport piece in english.
https://translate.google.com/transla...u%2F3-11077680
another one with interessting viewpoints
https://translate.google.com/transla...u%2F3-11077330
FIA discusses plans to save WRC
Printable View
YLE Sport piece in english.
https://translate.google.com/transla...u%2F3-11077680
another one with interessting viewpoints
https://translate.google.com/transla...u%2F3-11077330
FIA discusses plans to save WRC
Kia and Hyundai are same as Peugoet and Citroën. Not likely gonna happen
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Yep, and Toyota keeps increasing their stake in Subaru https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyot...64ypUJFjFodpC; btw, with the WRC becoming a sort of battlefield between Japanese and South Korean manus, who knows what will come next…Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
I see only Subaru, Mitsubishi and Suzuki and none other at that market. Maybe Proton but I don't think they have money, except if Geely (Chinese) will throw some funds there).
In European area I still hope that Skoda will step up, since VW is not interested and Seat too is not anymore close that sport. Since PSA fused with FCA I don't see any Italian brand to join either, and Opel under them and their constant crisis will probably never happen. Mini, well don't even bother thinking about that.
Still hoping that Ford will back up M-Sport like they say. They have free marketing from them and that's not right, but what can we do.
Americans don't even know other sports than baseball, rugby and Nascar.
So that leaves us only on Japaneses and Skoda... Fingers crossed
This is probably strange, but don't rule out Chinese brands. Electrification is a big thing there it seems
Promotional material of the brands top racing machinery on roads we as citizens drive everyday. People usually forget but there is only one top FIA sport oferring this, and its the WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Hyundai promote i30 and Veloster through TCR series, even in World class. They are entering with i30 Sedan in British championship too. These cars is not prototypes or something like that in WEC. Toyota promote their pickup Hilux through Dakar and cross country rallies (again world cup). Rallycross too have many ''brands''.
I mean Formula series and sports cars (WEC and similar) are kinda different, but still they promote at least technology and maybe implement that in their future cars, who knows.
Perhaps Citroen withdrawal will prompt a complete rethink of the 2022 rules, but they need to do that fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Maybe something like R5 with bigger restrictor, 6 speed box, more aero and hybrid tech for liaison sections.
That is true - but why are there not more Manufacturers interested? It should be the most 'road relevant' motorsport, but for some reason it's not. Something isn't working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
Its quite clear, isnt it. Nobody knows who Ogier, Tänak or Neuville are outside of us fuel fags. Everyone knows who Lewis Hamilton or and Vettel are. Its the media, the publicity and the interest in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I don't think F1 is doing too well behind all the pay walls they've got.Quote:
Originally Posted by krissucool
It's because there isn't many top drivers out there. And that can't come without proper testing and proper backing. So it's cursed circle all around. From youngsters I only see one who maybe will be capable to reach top of the podiums but for that I'm not so sure at least for now. Latvala, Meeke and Mikkelsen had a huge shots of becoming one too but they lost it. Evans, mabe but I don't think so. SHame just that Loeb isn't interested or at least isn't still there so we could have 4 way battle.
No. R5 is based on limitation of cost by using of stock bodyshell, plenty of stock parts, widely restricted design solutions etc. It will not work if you start adding hybrid technologies with much higher torque (parts will start to fail), batteries (no space dedicated for them in the stock cars) etc. For the hybrid tech. the ideal solution is exactly what FIA propose - space frame based prototype cars. It's much easier for everyone and IMHO not more expensive than crazy modifications of a stock car.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Also the proposed solution allows whatever manufacturer to join no matter what he produces in series and that is an absolute must these days. IMHO the space frame based cars shall have been introduced already with the 2017 generation of cars.
If the hybrid technology is just for road sections then I don't think it will have huge torque that R5 transmissions can't cope with?
If it's used only for the road sections than it's useless several hundreds kilograms in the car, i.e. nonsense for me.
I agree, but that seems to be the FIA proposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Then FULL electric, lower down mileage of stages and maybe one year or two later so the teams could be prepared well. Or simply find one individual brand and make electric powertrain for all teams. Then they can decide what to do with them. Isn't Formula E running like that?
Why? To end up like Rallycross and have all manus leave?! That is not the step, atleast right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Hyundai, Toyota will spend each 2 mio or more on development, then every car (if this is true will start only for powertrain) at 500.000 and other stuff. I think it would be more than million per car. Do you think M-Sport have that kind of amount for succesful business? And then what, in like 3 years there would be cheaper? Before 2017 season everyone talk about huge costs and now teams are considering to leave... And with that new hybrid it's even worse, especially if the tech will only be used at road section. Completely stupid, as far I know.
And I still have a feeling they are not decided what to do exactly, so that's the problem too for manufacturers. Right now they are delaying rules to be released later...
Rallycross could be easier to adapt that, because of very short lenght and time of stages, but I think that huge part of that is infrastructure. Not every host country could provide such amount of power. We will see what this Project E will bring if it will ever be adapted. Not so sure why ARX was cancelled after all that hype about becoming premier league.
For gods sake, do you really want to ruin the sport turning the WRC into a Mickey Mouse stages championship? Forget EVs in rally; their safety and range issues can’t be solved in a proper way.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
The problem with that is that nobody will watch it just like Formula E because it's simply booooring.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Also what You are going to do when the car starts to burn somewhere in the forest in 35°C?
Hybrid seems the way to go for me. Bit of best of both worlds, petrolheads (like me) have sound and notice, which in my opinion is one of the key elements of the whole rally feeling.
Rally's can keep there current length which is also a must, the endurance element can be used for marketing to. If let's say Toyota gets a 1 and 2 result in safari, it proves there car is fast, strong and reliable.
Also the "eco" lovers will be satisfied.
To keep costs down there should be a simple hybrid system, so that manufacturers cant/don't start a expensive race for that. Strict rules or one system provided by one company.
Tube chassis seems like a good idea to me also.
To be honest, in real life I think there should be a balance also. In city's the logic thing is full electric, that's clear. But outside of those city's it AL depends on ho is driving, and why. Hybrid for most of us I think, and long distance drivers and heavy machinery should be last Gen diesel.
How many works teams are there and how many are here?
Cars burned before with internal combustion engines.
That's completely different thing. You can extinguish burning petrol car muuuuuch easier than li-ion batteries. That's a simple fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Hybrid have batteries? And petrol... now calculate
Even though I consider buying a hybrid as my next car as well I do not actually agree. Hybrids are extremely technically complicated. While I repeat again and again that the complete electrification is not prepared I do agree that pure EVs are much simpler and potentially less expensive cars. Hybrids are just a half-way something which is totally overcomplicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
Hybrids don't necessarily need batteries (for example Toyota in Le Mans didn't use batteries - but that depends on how the rules are set) and even if they do those are much smaller than for pure EV.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Petrol is much smaller issue for extinguishing than batteries. Period.
Volkswagen will withdraw its factory backing of any programme using an internal combustion engine at the end of this year, as it looks to an electrified future.
https://www.autosport.com/other/news...ine-programmes
Seems to mean just Volkswagen, not Volkswagen Group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Only VolkswagenQuote:
Originally Posted by RS
NOT Audi, Bentley, Cupra, Lamborghini, Porsche, Seat or Skoda
VW execs are a bunch of hypocrites; they only become EVs lovers after getting caught in the emissions scandal and they’re milking EVs cow the harder they can as they know people will end realizing that EVs are globally harmful to the environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Hats off to Toyota; they’ve invested on Hybrids a long time ago as a way to make ICE cars more efficient and sustainable.
Funny thing is all the bad press diesels get for harmful emissions VW's sister brand Audi are doing away with petrol engines in their sports 'S' range in favour of Diesel engined versions.
I don't think they won't be the last either, I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Also worth noting that like the Polo WRC '17, there is a working MK8 Golf TCR now that will never be used.
Dieselengines can swallow so many different fuels... even environmental friendly ones.
So can petrol engines...question is, which of the is environmentally friendly? Apart from animal slaughterwaste FAME/gas and waste water gas, i can`t think of any...ok, algaes maybe. And that goes for the production part only. When they burn, it`s quite the opposite.
What is environmental friendly fuel?
Diesel engine's problem is that it either produce a lot of NOx or a lot of solid particles. That is a fact which can not be avoided. Afterwards it needs expensive add-ons to fight them such as SCR or particle filters or lately both. That makes them very complicated and expensive.
Electricity from renewable sources - wind, wave, solar, hydro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Hydrogen?
Attachment 1885Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Which of that can be burned in diesel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Btw. I don't consider wind turbines to be that environmental friendly because they produce a lot of low frequency noise.