Ferrari Forgot to inform LeClerc of Vettel Penalty!
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...vettel-penalty
but of course they did. SMH.
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Ferrari Forgot to inform LeClerc of Vettel Penalty!
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...vettel-penalty
but of course they did. SMH.
I hope the stewards are paid handsomely for their efforts .
And , I hope this whole issue is dealt with , as it seems there are a lot of arguable aspects of this incident .
To have moments where so many are outraged , including names like Stewart , Andretti , and Mansell , makes Seb's words about modern F1 ring a little too loudly , and gestures like bringing Vettel onto the top step a bit hollow .
Here's a question : Did anyone switch back the number signs in front of the cars after Seb changed them ?
“Forgot”.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
LeCLerc mentioned in post race interviews as well that they never informed him.
That section of the rules do not prevent Ferrari from appealling the decision of the stewards. It simply insist that the team and driver must comply with the penalty within the specification of this section within the particular race. The appeal procedures is defined elsewhere and follow a mechanism outside the scope of the stewards. If Ferrari wishes to appeal they can do so. They just need to raise the matter with the appeal commission at their next sitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
But l doubt they would do so for obvious reasons. Ferrari would want this matter to end quickly as it only serves to highlight how they have lost again when all the advantages were in their favor.
You can imagine how much of a bigger problem this would be for Ferrari if they created a situation where Leclerc sneaks into 2nd place with Vettel relegated further to 3rd. Of course they did not forget. They just managed the situation wisely, l think.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
No, it states:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
If any of the seven penalties above are imposed they shall not be subject to appeal.
It does not state:
If any of the seven penalties above are imposed they shall not be subject to appeal during the race.
Actually, in recent times, Vettel has been very proper and a model racer, especially after his wheel banging with Hamilton in Baku. Hardly gets into trouble with the powers that be. So it was great to see some emotion and angry gesture from him. It shows he still cares about winning. It shows he wants Ferrari to do well. I liked what l saw actually. But l think the world of racing would go ballistic if Hamilton did the same thing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
It was the kind of attitude that we come to expect from Max Verstapenn. That's why it was interesting and entertaining to see a four time world champion do it.
Yes you are correct, l missed that. I suppose the Stewards decision is final in this case. It is interesting to note that the same section places upon the stewards the discretion to investigate and the discretion to apply a penalty. It also gives the steward the get out of jail card of imposing a warning.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
There is something wrong with the lack of the ability to appeal a decision. I think that needs to change.
Well, it is what it is
I agree with others here. Vettel cut the corner of the track. That is what he should have been penalised for. A position change seemed obvious, not a time penalty. ( obvious from my lounge chair of course )
Vettel is still a reasonable chance to win the championship. Leclerc is no chance. It's not really a big deal on this occasion.
The Seb/Lewis controversy isn't over , as the reds have claimed a right to review , believing they have new evidence .
I can’t really see Ferrari getting anywhere with it or how they can reverse the result now. Were they to say to Seb you’ve now won, then Mercedes will just claim they would have pushed harder to get by Vettel and win it on track opposed to just sitting pretty behind him assured of the win.
Ferrari are just flogging a dead horse now.
I get your point , but if they have new evidence that shows the red guy wasn't at fault , isn't a little unfair to not change the result ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
What I mean to say is , if it's clear , doesn't it degrade the win for the silver guy ?
It was clear to Seb in the dying laps , that he had to get a 5 second gap to win . He knew it , and couldn't .
It was also clear that Lewis had to keep that gap under that amount , and did so , but with a few lockups on the way .
This says to me , that Hamilton , in a car famous for being twitchy following others , at a circuit said to be as hard to pass at as Monaco , battling a car that had better top speed , driven by a 4 time world champion who had already kept him behind for many laps on a really hot day where the tires were graining on everybody , wasn't very likely to have gotten past Seb , even if highly motivated .
If it's a case of "clear" versus a "less likely scenario" , then isn't it just justice ?
I'm not trying to be provocative .
Fair, in that case, would have been Mercedes to know the result would be thrown out and have had the opportunity to throw the kitchen sink at Ferrari. Whether he could have gotten past or not is really unknown. Mercedes will claim they pressured him into one mistake and reversing the penalty ensured they didn’t get the opportunity to do so a second time and, lets face it, given Vettel’s track record against Hamilton it’s highly likely that could have happened.
Ferrari have to suck this one up. Anything other than the official race result as it currently stands will just become even more humiliating for the sport. I give the review about a one in a billion chance of success for that reason alone.
Isn't it just a little humiliating for the sport to have the silver team win them all , even when they don't ?
That's the other side of the coin , if they really can prove what they say .
Just sayin' .
We've had controversy before and we will have controversy again.
Deep as Davey's locker , Mr. Jones . Hee hee .Quote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
Whatever they prove/argue Mercedes can counter it with their own. It’d be more humiliating to take the win off them now a couple of weeks later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
It’s up to the other teams to raise their game and challenge Mercedes.
Apparently Ferrari believes the no appeal clause do not apply if the Stewards have made an apparent mistake. This is also a great argument against this clause. If there was an apparent error in the decision of the stewards, teams must be able to shed light on the error by providing proper evidence to demonstrate the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Looking back now, it has become apparent that the regulations empowered the stewards with the right latitude of discretion to employ during the deliberation exercise. In this case, the stewards did not give the appropriate level of the benefit of the doubt to Vettel. On the face of it, the rules was applied correctly, but it was done harshly with very little margins. It was a punishment that the fans felt also very deeply, which is an indication to me that there was something wrong with how the penalty was dealt.
That said, any remedy is likely to also create a new problem. As you have alluded to, Mercedes would feel hard done by and challenge any decision to revert the win to Ferrari. Even if they let it go, it sets a problematic precedent. I don't know it there has ever been a situation where wins has been taken away after the ceremony and the race weekend is past.
This is a scenario I could see Ferrari taking to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
Does CAS even have jurisdiction vis á vis Formula One apart from doping infrigements? I have never heard of a single F1-related case being decided by CAS, which leads me to believe that there is no arbitration agreement with regard to the FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
CAS, afaik, have no jurisdiction over F1 matters. Even Giedo van der Garde had to take his case through the Supreme Court of Victoria to get what he wanted in 2014. I still cannot believe Monisha Kaltenborn kept her job after such a colossal screw up she made that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by gm99
I know this is over , but here's one last point I'd like to make .
Had Ferrari gotten this Canadian result overturned , the general consensus seems to be that Mercedes would have the right to feel aggrieved because they turned down Lewis's engine , instead of having him fight to get past Seb for the win .
So , rather than thrashing the motor , presumably on the most extreme settings , Lewis was now able to turn it down , certainly extending it's life .
With 3 engines per car per year , that could have a major effect on the championship .
I think Mercedes would rather take the win over the promise of engine life. Bird in hand if you get my drift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Alright. CAS doesn't have jurisdiction on F1. But I can see them possibly doing something about the result. What, idk.
l think the stewards do that on other occasions but in this instance where they should have been consistent.