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Was it? He was 13 seconds off the lead, never in contention for the win and when they both went flat out before the pitstops, Hamilton pulled 1.5 seconds on him in one lap alone. He pulled 4 seconds on him in 3 laps and he was running in clear air pretty much all the time. I am not sure I’d consider that a great performance honestly. Better than his performance in France though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Bottas was being clever really. He knew the win was not possible so he decided to take care of his engine. In the press pit, he said he decided to conserve engine life since it was clear that Leclerc was too fast to beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
That's interesting insight from Nitrodaze. Obviously it pays to pay attention to the post race media?
The guy has to figure out how to get a win? When Hamilton beats him, he wins. When Bottas gets Hamilton, he's not winning.
Now that he has a new contract for next year. I think Bottas not only has to race to get as many wins as he can (because it makes you feel good) and secure 2nd in the championship. But I think it's best for Bottas to start racing with next year's championship in mind.
Get some wins and results ahead of Hamilton where it'll carry over onto next year.
Qualifying head to head 11-5 to Hamilton
Wins 9-2.
2 wins in 1.75 season in a Mercedes is not a great record.
Still mathematically in with a chance of the championship should Hamilton suffer 2-3 DNF’s but it’s a stretch and looks a defeated man now. Credit where it’s due, he has been a vast improvement on last years Bottas v1.0.
Maybe Bottas v3.x will do better.
After Hamilton established a clear lead to attain number 1 status, Bottas has tried to do enough to play the tyeam game or at least finish 2nd where that was possible. So far, l think he has done all that the team want from him. He is clearly keeping his powder dry by not stressing is engine with the hope that if Hamilton has an engine problem, he would have a good enough engine to capitalize. Besides, he has not been enjoying the love of the team. Take Sochi for instance, he asked if he could go for fastest lap, the pitwall said no, protect your engine. Then Hamilton went and put out the fastest lap scoring the extra point that could have also been available to Bottas if he was given the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
These statistics don't mean anything in the face of the realities of internal team politics.
He has at least upped his game from last year. And in all fairness with Hamilton as the comparison, only a few drivers probably stand a real chance of challenging him in equal machinery.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
With the season heading well into silly season, the rumours are rift and as the current occupant of the most coveted seat in F1, everyone is talking about Bottas. So l want to ask this forum for a vote on whether Bottas is out or still in the Mercedes next season. Just say OUT or IN and a short reason why you think so.
OUT - He has not earned the seat this season.
IN - any other is not quicker than Lewis either
OUT - even if Bottas performs adequately, Merc can't take the chance of losing George if he's not promoted soon.
For now, at least until some changes happen, there are probably no drivers that will challenge either Lewis or Max in the respective teams. But four years in Bottas still isn't really a great #2 unless the car is completely dominant. And just about anyone on the grid can do that. I think there are a lot of really good options myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
And no disrespect intended towards yourself or Bottas. He's a really good driver IMHO, but not consistently fast enough to earn an upper crust ride.
I have to think that has an impact on the decision. If Merc waits too long it could really bite them later, especially with all the car changes coming next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstgear
Toto said today the decision has been made. Has to be:
OUT
Russell in a inferior car trounced Bottas.
2.3 seconds to Hamilton in the same car. It's actually disgraceful. Mercedes have to look to the future and with the rule changes next year it's the perfect time to bring him in. There's more to be gained by bringing in Russell than there is by retaining Bottas. As I said before, I heard through the grapevine that they signed Russell about 2 months ago anyway. We'll find out soon if that is true I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1nKS
IN.
If Russell was still available, Red Bull would have waited before re-signing Perez.
Yup! I thought the same as soon as Perez's contract was signed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gm99
I think you mean OUT for BottasQuote:
Originally Posted by gm99
No, I meant IN for Russell :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
The thread question was in connection to Bottas only; OUT or INQuote:
Originally Posted by gm99
Yes, I got it wrong - I did mean OUT for Bottas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
I won't attempt a funny riposte this time.
Would be cool if Russel could match, amd sometimes beat Hamilton. Bottas has become too much of a loyal pissboy in the team.
But it takes a good deal of psyke and self esteem to constantly challenge a driver like Hamilton.
Many drivers in many teams has over the years, gone down, amd never risen back up again.
I think we would have the Alonso vs Hamilton saga of Mclaren 2007. Hamilton knows that Russell is very hungry and desperate to establish himself. So l fully expect Russell to race Hamilton hard. With the pace we have seen, it would not be surprising to see him beat Hamilton on occasions. Would he be able to dominate and win titles with Hamilton in the other car is another question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Russell going into the seat next to Hamilton could also be a career-damaging experience. It all comes down to Russell's attitude and mentality when he turns the Mercedes wheel as a full-time Mercedes driver. If his attitude is confrontational, then we would have the very conditions of Alonso-Hamilton 2007 and Toto would have a real problem on his hands.
I think Russell in the Mercedes would be mighty and Verstappen knows that. As do Leclerc, Norris and Sainz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
I think Russell will be told in no uncertain terms that he is Hamiltons biatch, if he doesn't play ball and goes against team orders he will quickly find himself replaced.
That won't stop him trying to prove a point in qualy though... and Lewis will NOT like being upstaged if, or should I say when, that happens. Thats not a dig at Lewis btw.. nobody on the grid would enjoy that, I wouldn't either.
Russell seems like a team player. I think he will obey team orders and will defer to Hamilton as long he stays at Mercedes. It really a perfect arrangement for Mercedes. Unless they somehow miss on the 2022 car, they will be in position to dominate for years to come. Russell will then be in position to make it "his" team when Hamilton does decide to retire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Don't think I would say that if they keep Bottas instead.
I've got to disagree F1nKS. I think he will behave much more like Leclerc did in his first year at Ferrari. He said all the right things..willing to learn and be mentored and play a support roll. That only lasted as long as he was slower. As soon as he was on pace, he made the team his and was not willing to let the senior driver hang around and retire from the team at the time of his choosing. I think all (or most) F1 drivers would do the same. But the evidence for George is there to be seen from his one race in the Mercedes last year. He didn't patiently stay behind Bottas...he went for it the second he smelled blood.
That is the winner instincts and we expect no less. F1 is a dog eat dog environment. His career is on the line, so we would expect him to do just that. The question though is can he tame Hamilton as Leclerc tamed Vettel. For Hamilton, this is role reversal from his Alonso - Mclaren experience. Hamilton is not showing signs of slowing yet. But we are seeing fatigue from him after races. His age is showing l suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstgear
The changing of the guard ceremony shall occur sooner or later, but it is inevitable.
So the final deal of Bottas to Alfa Romeo has apparently now been signed so I expect Russell to Mercedes to be announced in the coming days.
Yup. At this point after being patient for like 2 years, Russell is out to win the Championship and races himself until it becomes mathematically impossible for either one. Hamilton doesn't need a #2 and Bottas has been given equal status (for the most part) during his 5 year stint with mercedes. At the very least equal machinery. For Russell and Mercedes, the expectation is there to compete and win and having 2 drivers at the highest level pushes the team forward IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstgear
wow has it?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I was sure he was going to williams.
Perhaps williams didn't want him.
So I believe that Illot and DeVries are going to be at Williams in 2022
I see Zhou becoming the Renault 3rd driver and then possibly taking over for Alonso in 2023
very interesting!
That is why i think 2022 is Hamilton's final year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
If he wins his 8th WDC this year then 2022 is just a farewell tour and a chance at the new machinery.
If he misses it this year, he is hoping that 2002 might be another shot at it. albeit with a better competitor in other seat and a possible 5 way championship fight.
Anything is possible with the new cars.
Lets talk Bottas
Let's not and say we did. :D
You could be right, if Hamilton does start to slow down, it would be hard to expect George to slow down with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstgear
I don't agree with you here. There should have been no expectation that George was going to bow down to Bottas - everybody knew this was his test to show where he stacked up against Bottas. I personally thought he was overrated up to this race.Quote:
But the evidence for George is there to be seen from his one race in the Mercedes last year. He didn't patiently stay behind Bottas...he went for it the second he smelled blood.
I've heard De Vries is going to Alfa and Gio is being dropped with Kimi retiring. I'm not as convinced on this as the other rumour though. This is just what I've heard disclaimer so maybe none of it will come to pass. All will be confirmed over coming days I suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Well at least we had something to fill the gap after Spa.
Merc would be fools to not have Russell, and personally I think if he ends up in a Merc they will allow him to race Lewis. With the new cars they will both be having to get the feel, and holding anyone back would be foolish. I do expect the field to tighten up, after all if the cars are slower more drivers should be able to find the limits of them on a more regular basis. If Lewis gets the WDC this year it might be to George's benefit, as Lewis might not race quite so hard for another title once he already has the more WDC's. Then again..... he might race even harder wanting to get that first title in the new hardware.
Until it all happens we can't be sure. George should fill that void better than Bottas IMHO, as he is still very hungry and has a better chance at challenging for wins. And we still don't know where Merc will fall with the new cars, though it seems they have put a lot of budget towards their effort.
I think Toto all but acknowledged that Russel is coming to Mercedes. From every perspective it makes sense for 2022.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I think the only hold up is where Bottas is going to land and Toto probably (although it really is out of his control IMO) wants to ensure that before making the announcement. He said as much.
But it is just wasting everybody's time and I'm sure Bottas and his team are capable of finding their own deal.
We shall see.
I agree.... but then again I haven't heard any of it out of Toto's mouth.
I've seen so many articles claiming differing things that it might just be a media storm about nothing. Somebody in that mix is probably rights.... but maybe not as well.
At this point it would almost be comical to find out nobody is moving. :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Kimi retiring from F1. This article in ESPN reporting pretty much everything I mentioned above:
https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...nt-f1-end-2021
The Iceman is bowing out at the end of the season. Which means, there is a good chance Bottas is heading to Alfa Romeo. my instincts say he would be heading back to Williams to lead the team. The recent showings might suggest Williams might have a good car in the new era.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
It's official - Bottas to Alfa:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...Tw7utfyswPY8H0
Don't know what any team sees in him bar unquestionable loyalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
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