Apparently Rally Mexico has confirmed that Kalle Rovanperä is allowed to take part in the event https://twitter.com/KaiTarkiainen/st...94261480509440
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Apparently Rally Mexico has confirmed that Kalle Rovanperä is allowed to take part in the event https://twitter.com/KaiTarkiainen/st...94261480509440
Kevin Abbring will certainly compete in Monte Carlo and Sweden, probably in Portugal as well. He is looking for further funding (also from Malcom Wilson) to do Germany and Catalunya.
Marquito Bulacia from Bolivia will participate in six round of wrc2 2018.
https://www.facebook.com/MarquitoBul...type=3&theater
I just looked him up. He's only 17 like Rovanpera. It would be good to see some non-European prospects. I also hope at least one of the Japanese guys gets some WRC outings. It can only be good for the sport to get more people excited around the globe.Quote:
Originally Posted by trifonvl
Rovanperä and Bulacia both did the Adriatico and San Marino rallies last year. Rovanperä was constantly faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryin...-2017/1465201/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryin...-2017/1515572/
Too early in WRC...Quote:
Originally Posted by trifonvl
What should he do then? drive R5 in Bolivia where he already wins with Corolla?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Of course he should drive WRC2 events if he has change to do so.
I think he should do step by step. Continue in some national championship on tarmac or gravel (or mixture) - Italy again, UK, France, there is lot of possibilities. Or move to ERC. But going directly to WRC2 is not the best way, according to my opinion. I think it is too early also for Rovanpera.Quote:
Originally Posted by Essaj
Flying back and forth between Bolivia and Europe for a 100km's of national rally must be really fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
What is he or Kalle losing when they start doing WRC rallies soon as they can? They might not be winning the rallies or even finishing top-10 but so what? they get 3 times the kilometers compared to national rallies + experience from the rallies that matter.
Also just like Kalle, Marco is still 17, which ERC rallies they are allowed to take part except Latvia? and they will be both 18 by then.
I agree about Marco, he has not so much experience - only two seasons did, Kalle done 4 season, drive 2 WRC and basically 2 ERC events, national 2wd championship step - check; national 4wd championship(s) step - check, International rally step - check, now it's his another step up, drive one or two ERC tarmac events would be great for him, but as Essaj wrote - he drive where he is allowed drive, in this case same goes for Marco.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I will start from the end - for ERC it is same like in WRC, it depends on the championships and national ASNs. So somewhere yes, somewhere no. But now I am talking in basics and I have wrote it many times in the past, you should go step by step from the smaller championships through bigger events to the WRC. I can tell you that national championships or ERC are completely different events than WRC in few terms - mainly it is about mileage between services and length of the stages. Not only for so young drivers it is mainly about experience - in WRC level they are usually fighting with themselves, to stay on the road and finish the rally. But on "smaller" events with shorter distances between services they have more chances that their car survive, they have more chances to play with the setup of cars, they have more chances to learn also other abilities important for rallysport - fighting for overall classification, when everybody is focused to them, have close fights for seconds with adequate rivals etc. It is very similar also in other sports - you can immediatelly start in the highest class, but to be a good driver you need lot of skills (driving, mental etc). And you must learn them somewhere. And I dont think that WRC is the best level for learning this basic skills...Quote:
Originally Posted by Essaj
C'mon stop with the ERC already, there is no way either of them is going to do full ERC season ever, they can't do it before they are 18 and after that they both have driven multiple WRC events so ERC is already out of the question.
My guess is that Marco is still going to drive CIR and maybe BRC + the 6 WRC events which I guess are Mexico, Argentina, Wales, Spain, Australia and maybe Italy or France? maybe under aged drivers are allowed to drive there?
Kalle might still do some Latvian, Finnish, Italian, APRC, BRC, ....? + the all the WRC events he is going to do.
Experience wise Kalle already has a lot for his age and step to WRC is what he needs, he doesn't need to win championship next year or even rallies which he still might be able to do.
Everyone here knows the the difference between National, ERC and WRC here and all you said makes no sense. Everyone (inc. Kalle and Marco) knows that to score points you need to finish the rally, no matter the length of it, to score more points you need to faster than your rivals, no matter the length.
WRC rallies provide more Km's, more Experience and more changes to tune your car between the services if needed, which should be minimal after pre event tests.
You don't have to be championship contender to drive in WRC2 and it's by far the best and most cost efficient way to learn WRC rallies with 4WD car and keep improving in every aspect of rallying. (if you have the backing)
Ok, it is your opinion. Mine is different ;)
I have often seen/heard "learn to drive wheels off it first then step up a class" meaning totally master one class of car before stepping up to next level of car. Would this not apply and be more relevant than what particular championship a person is entering in.
Of course it is about the car, but not only. To be a good rally driver, you need to have a lot of skills. And you need have ideal playfield where to learn. If you are a soccer player, you are not going directly to Premier league, also biggest talents are going step by step through smallers leagues/teams to improve the skills and mentality. And in the rallysport it is also very similar. I think that this was one of the problems of Max Novikov - he step up too quickly. And from actual drivers, the best example is Andreas Mikkelsen. From beginning he was going immediatelly with WRC car and after few events he moved to WRC. But to be a real champion, he needed to make a step back, which returned him back between the champions...Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiWRCfan
Max Novikov? Maybe Evgeny Novikov?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Bit OT, but in football, basketball and other team sports player need playing time, which he can't get in strongest league, that why going trough smaller ones, in rallying you get same seat time in any level, if you can stay on road.
Back to topic. What about Pierre-Louis Loubet - he went straight to WRC - if he has been done national, and then ERC, was he better? I don't know much about him, is he real talented guy?
Of course you can do your development time in WRC2 if you have the budget. The problem just is that you're expected to have a certain level in WRC2 and if you don't have it, you're just perceived as slow. Also, the competition is tougher. Is it better to be ERC/BRC champion than fifth in WRC2?
I think Bulacia is not yet ready for WRC2, but Rovanperä is.
Unlike many of the other top sports, in motorsport you’ve to pay to play and very few manage to be paid for driving. Rally it’s even harder than motor racing; manus or top team seats are rare, especially if we compare to the larger number available on international circuit series.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
That’s probably why international rally careers are usually short and some young drivers try to get in WRC as soon as possible. If they manage to get the extra budget to do JWRC or WRC2, why bother to be in ERC? Running in the pinnacle rally series, alongside the best drivers of the world, is for sure a much more exciting and rewarding experience to them.
Because I think that they can learn much more in lower series than in WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Yes, of course, Evgeny, Max is his father :) Ok, so if we dont count team sports, we can talk lets say biathlon. There is also "first league" and lower leagues. And for competitors it is better to go step by step from lower championships. And for them is better to fight for top 5 in IBU Cup and be around 30rd position in big league. All, what I want to say is that rallying is not only to know the WRC stages and be from beginning there. You should learn lot of skills to be successful driver, not only driving the car, but also mentality, to know, how to fight for overall win, when everybody is focused on you, to fight for seconds etc. And it is better (and of course also cheaper) to learn it in lower championships than going directly to WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by electroliquid
With Pierre-Louis Loubet, it is very specific. He absolutely missed all regional/small events and started directly in WRC. First year with R3T, then immediatelly R5. As he was always in the best teams, there must be lot of backing behind him. Now he has three seasons in WRC behind him, last one with factory R5 car. He is not top WRC2 driver now, showed good speed on some stages and has potential to be faster/better. But until now nobody expected from him anything. Now he will need to grow up, start to make some results. And there is question if this so direct way to the WRC is the best one...
Couldn't agree more on that one ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
In this terms I like one adage: "To be a champion you dont need to be fastest driver, but the best driver."
Of course, every driver is unique. We cannot say strictly that one way is the best one and others are shit. Everybody is trying to go by their own way and in the final they are more or less successful. I like a lot not only to think about it, but also to talk about it. As I was involved in JWRC in golden era around 2005 and later in IRC/ERC, I had opportunity to talk with lot of drivers. Range of this drivers is really big - some of them are successful and have WRC factory seat, some of them are nowhere now. With lot of them I was talking about their plans, about their progress, about their thoughts. And later I can confront them again and understand, what was good and what was bad from their perspective. It is very interesting to know experience of that drivers, to know what they expected from their plans, what was their decisions and what is the reality. I was also trying to give some advices or part of my experience to some drivers. Somebody of them agreed with me, somebody of them not. But I must say that lot of them now agreed that this advices on the beginning of their careers were not bad...
Well Kalle knows how to do this. In Latvia he was dominant and the Finnish guys had nothing on him either. When he went to Italy I thought it was good for him to learn not being always the fastest guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I kind of agree with PLuto.
He is ERC man and I´m WRC man but still: Many good points.
It´s never bad to go ERC before WRC and maybe 95% of drivers can´t start from WRC.
Kalle has used Rally2 in every WRC event which he attended, can´t continue like that, also tarmac- and some gravel type skills quite low but he has factory deal. Let him try WRC2.
Kalle is now works driver which means he will have plenty of tests and lessons to take. Generally speaking in last ten years Škoda has been very good in development of young drivers. Let's see where Kalle can get. Just for remembering when Juho came to Škoda he was near useless on asphalt but three years later he even defeated Jan fair and square on Barum rally.
Also Škoda's APRC program, I think, is very good for young drivers to gather experience.
I always had a feeling that nobody from European drivers wants to do the APRC but for marketing purposes somebody has to - hence it's always someone new to drive it alongside Gaurav Gill.Quote:
Originally Posted by electroliquid
Juho´s beginnings in Skoda back in 2009 were beautiful times. Two crashes, 5th place on Rally Ypres and then in Russia where there was a surface that suited him the most of all , Juho had been caught by police for speeding and they confiscated his driving licence. I said to myself: "What a moron" :D ...but then I started to like him more and more. As I said...what a beautiful times ;)
Maybe you right, but Gill has no competition from Asia-Pacific region drivers, and Škoda provide someone each year. But for youngsters every km counts, especially in those rally, where they never drive before.
Kalle need to learn more on different surfaces, actually he did only latvian championship with fast gravel, but there are different types of gravel. He did one year in italian championship, but he needs to do much more on asphalt too. I think we will see Kalle more times this year also out of WRC ;)
... And that is what he is going to do next year, get new experiences. Everyone knows that he will be doing events out side of WRC mostly because he is not allowed to take part over half of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
No one has ever said that he is completed rally driver, not even close. He has done rallies where he is allowed.
he has driven in super fast latvian roads, he has driven in snow, on Italian tarmac and gravel, on muddy Wales, Australia, probably some tests elsewhere and I think that is already pretty nice list for 17 year old.
This year he gets to ad atleast Monte, Mexico, Argentina, Spain to that and those in WRC level and maybe some rallies in Italy and tests with Skoda almost anywhere.
I think no one ever said that driving in ERC is a bad thing, just that when you have a change to do WRC instead of course you choose it over ERC or national championships. It's not Kalle's or Marco's fault that they have backing to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Also he had problems in Walesm went off the road and had to retire for a day but have you seen what happened to him in Australia, it's totally out of his hand.
Didn't we have a similar situation with Antony Warmbold a few years ago? Does anybody remember him? He started rallying and very soon jumped to ERC. Despite miserable results he jumped to WRC and was expecting factory teams to notice his "talent". Of course his results were never good and his "career" ended as quickly as it started.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile...tony-warmbold/
Honestly, your step by step view makes total sense and could be the norm for any young driver wanting to start an international career; still, currently JWRC seems to be a quite attractive series (one make cup, fine prizes, WRC experience) and that’s probably why so many are trying it, almost straight from their national series.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
The jump from JWRC to WRC2 is even a greater risk, but after JWRC some may look at it as the best way to capitalize their ‘WRC experience’, forgetting how hard it’s to fight against experienced manu backed R5 drivers.
Probably there’s a step missing between JWRC and WRC2 (a R4 world cup?) in WRC ladder, like it’s maybe also missing a 2wd one make cup in ERC (a Junior R2 ‘ligth’, like in France?) as a entry level to the European series...
I dont think that JWRC is good for beginning of international career. And I also dont think it was attractive series in last years. There were only few competitors and usually between the crews there were really big gaps as WRC events with so many kms between services were easily too long for R2 cars...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Antony Warmbold is member of this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
And IIRC shared some very interesting information on his blog about the differences between 'customer' WRC cars and what the factory team were using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Regarding driver development, there seems to be an obsession these days to sign up the next big thing before they are barely out of nappies and in some cases I think the process is rushed.. perhaps not with Rovanpera as he actually started driving so young that he is quite experienced already.
Lefebvre is my favourite current example who showed a lot of promise in 2wd but then the following year was driving a World Rally Car in WRC and it hasn’t worked.
Mikelssen is a good example of someone who had to take a step back in order to take two steps forward.
Even ‘my’ Skoda seem to have been a bit guilty in this with Jusso Nordgren who they seem to have signed on the back of one good performance on his home event (or perhaps I missed something, can someone tell us more about him?)
WRC2 is on a really good level these days with the works Skoda and M-Sport teams there and of course they are necessary for drivers in order to learn the WRC events but there are a few problems with it as a championship..
1) It is very hard to compete if you are not in one of those works teams
2) Events are long and can often be decided by technical problems/punctures and gaps can end up very large so drivers sometimes don’t get much experience in close battles
3) Lack of tarmac
A good career plan to me could be something like ERC 2wd > ERC R5 > WRC2 > WRC.
He was pretty good on FWD in 2015 and 2016 and then he jumped into R5 last year, doing just two Finnish championship events, finishing second in each (one of them the top 3 was separated by 4 seconds, in the other he lost only to Kalle Rovanperä). In Rally Finland the first day he was struggling with the car, then the second day he made one fastest R5 time, then went to Rally2 with double puncture, and did again fastest or almost fastest times on the last day. But still, that's very little experience on 4WD car, I was very surprised to see him being signed. He wasn't very fast on Catalunya or Wales but I think the team just wanted him to finish the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS