M.Mouton visit Cyprus to cheque the rally, and I think is possible Cyprus rally join in the calendar of WRCQuote:
Originally Posted by tc10a
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M.Mouton visit Cyprus to cheque the rally, and I think is possible Cyprus rally join in the calendar of WRCQuote:
Originally Posted by tc10a
Michelle would be there to check safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antreas
I reckon that's a long way from being visited by WRC Promoter to sign a contract to be in the WRC....
Do they have the money to be in WRC?
Same with Acropolis. Have they paid their debts from the last WRC event there? Didn't the ASN go bankrupt owing money to WRC Promoter and FIA?
IMHO Rally Cyprus was from sport point of view total disaster. See: https://youtu.be/OI0G5iqgLKk ...If Rally Croatia can´t offer anything special but could be average (boring) round of WRC, Rally Cyprus would be much worse.
Because gryazin face problems is a reason that Cyprus rally is bad??Cyprus Rally is very Historical round of WRC.A round in WRC must be difficult ,the better driver to winQuote:
Originally Posted by liposh
Having been at Rally Cyprus this year I also have no clue why it should have been a disaster?Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
Quite the contrary during the rally I was thinking that this would have been a great WRC event as it was in the past. It's demanding, its special.
Some gallery from 2017: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_best...llye_2017.html
Am I really the only one who thinks such surface is not acceptable for ERC rally round but suitable max. for some local Baja race? Even if it was only this very short part it is still something bad.
I'm still here ;-) I presume you mean Rally Japan. Rally Hokkaido is the APRC round, still held in the same area as the first few Rally Japan rounds were. I have heard several stories about Rally Japan's return, most connected with Toyota's WRC progress and how they would like it based closer to Toyota City.Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
Isn't the whole point of WRC to demonstrate that your car can drive off road? I don't see why one surface is worse than another? If anything the variety is good. I'd love to see a rough, attritional event return like Cyprus or the Acropolis.Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
To hear people call Portugal a rough gravel rally is a bit of joke to be honest.
Portugal is rougher than Mexico, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
I can't believe I'm hearing that people consider Mexico rough...
I was the one who used that word...maybe technical would be better term than rough, but certainly those events are similar in style compared to faster rallies like NZ, Finland and Poland. You have to excuse me, I was totally off following WRC for 15 years before this season, Mexico feels like a totally new event to me :)
That’s the point I was trying to make; more than the number of competitive days or total stage kms, what keeps puzzling me is the short effort drivers are subjected each rally day. Driving around 140 competitive km’s for a little more than 1 hour in a full day leg is simply too short and looks a bit effortless; obviously it isn’t, especially considering the high performance of today’s cars, but nevertheless there’s room to make each rally day more physically demanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Instead of the 9 to 5 we could have a 6 to 12 (am/pm) marathon leg comprising 250 stage kms, with one or two service halts and an inline route replacing the boring ‘morning/afternoon’ identical loops. With this one only big leg on Saturday, plus a proper qualifying stage on Friday and a nice SSS run for Tele purposes (without counting for the classification) before Sunday’s podium ceremony, I honestly believe that we could get a new breed of sprint WRC events, more exciting to see and follow. In addition to those 10 or 12 short events we still would need 4 grand slam iconic events (Monte, GB (RAC inspired), NZ and Argentina), with 3 or 4 competitive days and a 600 stage kms limit.
I know, this is daydreaming as, like many of you already said, it’s not expectable to see big layout changes under the current exciting WRC environment. We’ll probably have to stick with some random event replacements and pray to Rally Gods for keeping manus loyal to the series.
Btw, even if WRC events became shorter after Gr.B, the real revolution was at the beginning of the 00’s, when Mr. Richard took ISC control and imposed the single service park, the clover leaf format, the 9 to 5 schedule and Sunday’s mini leg. All this, allegedly, to bring TV and mass media into WRC; 17 years after we’re still looking for them…
Could you please be more detailed about why and how would it make rallying "more exciting to see and follow" if all the stage kilometres were run on one day? More physically demanding so we would see more crashes towards the end of the day or we would see some drivers drive 80% speed because they just want to finish? Henri Toivonen said in one of his last interviews that driving for hours a day in a modern fast car is "too much for the brain". Also, we would have no rally 2 at all in this format?
I would also love to have more inline routes vs repetitions but there's obviously many practical reasons why running a stage twice is easier and cheaper to arrange than two separate stages. Also probably easier for a tourist spectator to stay in the same place for two stages than to switch stage.
Yes, rallying isn't as popular as it was 20 years ago, but you cannot claim it's because we have the single service park regulations and short days etc. Maybe if we would have had the old regulations all along, we wouldn't have WRC rallying at all anymore because no manufacturer could afford it?
Meanwhile, I like your idea about having events of different lengths, like a long GB rally and a long Monte with shorter Sweden and Finland, but the short rallies could stay as they are now.
It's funny seeing people calling Portugal & Mexico tough rallies, I mean really? the closest thing today we have to the Acropolis Rally is Rally Italia Sardegna. What the FIA & Promoter should do (but probably won't 'cause they love their bucks) is bring back Italy to Sanremo as a mixed event, first day tarmac & the next 2 days gravel or vice versa, after that make RACC a full proper tarmac event with night stages (as they did back in 2013), when they finish with those 2 events, take away Coffs coat's rally Australia & let NZ join in the fray. After that, since Poland might be leaving us, bring back Acropolis instead (as Poland took it's place since 2014), and if they really want add Cyprus, Japan & Ireland....but hey, why would they do that if it doesn't bring them any money?....
I think it's a shame China won't be appearing anytime soon, was a perfect fit with both being an Asian and a tarmac event.
From my experience (only Portugal and Spain), and according to what is told about others WRC events, most of the time spectators can only see a SS in the morning and another one at the afternoon (luckily also a SSS, if that’s the case), during a rally day. It’s not hard to believe that in a long marathon leg we could managed to see in one day almost the number of stages that currently can be seen in a whole rally, with no boring loop breaks and getting a bit of the old day’s rush. Those at home (let’s be frank, besides a handful of motorsport forums dedicated members, how many guys actually follow the all 2 and a half days?) would also have the chance to keep up in a more thrilling way, without those huge breaks between loops and legs (sometimes one almost forget there’s still a rally going on).Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
For sure the clover leaf format still makes sense for rally’s being disputed in several days, but it’s not necessary if we could have sprint rally’s based on a long single leg. Btw, I also believe it wouldn’t be more dangerous to drivers: probably it’d make them develop a different driving approach, a bit like Formula guys do when driving at Le Mans.
Honestly I’m not regretting to have lost the (alleged) glorious old days; I’m just thinking on feasible alternatives to the 9 to 5 rally ‘office’ schedule, believing that actually it’s possible to bring up a more adventurous side of rally, which was present in past eras and hugely helped to forge our sport charisma.
It is not so much mixed surface event, this year it was again more gravel one. But it is interesting mixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I dont agree with you. Cyprus has much bigger potential to be interesting event. Because it is really DIFFERENT than Mexico, Sardegna or Portugal. Entry list and competition on Cyprus was not so bad, but unfortunatelly lot of good drivers retired soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
As i said on Cyprus thread: Cyprus and Acropolis only prove one thing, its places are in WRC. Rally use to be brutal to cars and drivers.
Exactly! Events were still a proper test - what I'd still define as Rallying; rather than what we have now which is almost Rally-lite. It is the equivalent of turning the Le Mans 24 Hours into the 6 Hours of Le Mans on the Bugatti circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
And I remember the uproar from certain writers bemoaning the changes. The teams & manufacturers were pleased as they were promised riches beyond belief; TV & sponsor money would roll in and WRC would threaten F1 in the global market.
Er, it didn't really happen - it was unsustainable. And we're not really any further on 17 years later.
I agree with RallyPower; you can keep most events as they are, fine no issues. However, some can become a short, sharp sprint event; Thursday/ Friday night SSS, followed by maybe 1 day of intense action - you could even repeat the stages in the reverse direction. Drivers are fitter than they've ever been, and if a driver can do a non stop 2-3 hour stint in an Endurance race, then a top WRC driver shouldn't have a problem with an intense day of action broken up between stages. You design the event so there aren't driver tiredness/ health issues.
This is not really possible. For example the spectator areas are differently safe to different directions and the ruts to the road probably make it tricky to drive to the wrong direction, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
BTW the rally stage length was limited to 400 kms already in 1997.
It's quite often done on asphalt events but only from one day to another because of the new taping.
The length of rallies was longer in the past but at least for rally Finland and rally GB the average length of the stages were shorter. Shorter stages would give the organizer the possibility to choose the best parts of a road and leave out the boring parts just get enough stage length. But then again there would be more need for officials at the start and end of the stages.
Average stage length and number of stages on the right scale and total length of stages on the left scale.
http://kuvanjako.fi/gh3jc.jpg
http://kuvanjako.fi/dmx6c.jpg
Well said!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Well it has happened in the past. I've been to Hafren (Dyfnant was also reversed ) when it has run in both directions on the same day; the run in the morning was 8-9:00 and the evening was 16-17:00; so there was enough time to turn the stage around. But I know that its become out of favour to do this anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Is there any word when there will be confirmed news about 2018 rallies and dates.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report...2018-wrc-dates
Quote:
WRC Promoter will present its 2018 calendar to the WRC Commission meeting in Germany later this month.
Croatia and Turkey is close to add in the calendar of WRC
Why they persist on having Croatia is beyond me, didn't they say they want more non-European events?Quote:
Originally Posted by Antreas
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Still no draft calendar? For Turkey, they have their candidate event from 20 to 22th of October, it's the Marmaris Rally. Quite strange to have a candidate event while everything should already be in place (in terms of calendar). Anyone who knows where and when the candidate event for Croatia is going to take place?
I presume at the time of Rally Poland. End of June.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
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Hmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antreas
Story in MN today is that Poland is definitely out - replaced by Turkey which would run in a September date. FIA Promoter are struggling with Croatia to find a suitable date that doesn't clash with the height of tourist season. So looks like it won't happen now. Also for NZ, Ciesla said the teams won't support that extra travel/expense as a 14th round.
Also Wales GB and Catalunya are likely to switch around on the calendar. First six events of the season will run in the same order as 2017.
I meant the candidate event, which should normally take place before it's decided wether they take it on the calendar or not. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
It's a smaller event, but Ypres has moved their event to the last week of June. It probably means the organizers know there's no WRC event that weekend.
Probably, we'll have to wait and see...Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
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tommeke_B: I guess you are searching for this article: http://rally-croatia.com/news/wrc-ca...d-and-croatia/ ...in 2017 it takes place last September weekend. Most probably the spot for 2018 will be really second half of June
They won't have a 14th round, so NZ is a no go. Bit of a cop out. Fine; forget about Turkey/ Croatia.......what can they offer??
MoneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Archie Gillaine
What a farce. If this was about safety, the first rally they would drop would be Monte Carlo, where a guy actually died this year and where there have been openly stated concerns about spectator safety for years. I'm not saying the should actually drop Monte Carlo, I think motorsport in general is in a downward spiral of health and safety gone mad. But if you were a complete safety wanker, the first rally you should go after, if you have a modicum of integrity and intellectual honesty, is Monte Carlo.
What about the other complaints of crazy stuff at Rally Poland, like the fire truck that went onto a live stage. Hey, did anyone remember that the exact same thing just happened at Rally Germany? Where's the fake outraged media coverage of that?
Goddamn corrupt hypocrites, the lot of them. I can't stand that.
Didn't know the Police car drove into Rally traffic...
Poland should have been long gone
September for Turkey.
It's excellent news!
Shame about NZ... still need to get back into the WRC!!
Croatia would be a great asphalt addition to be honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
Well if we're just taking into consideration what *actually* happened on a rally as opposed to what *could* have happened, then the first rally that should go should be Monte Carlo, since a spectator was *actually* killed there. So why aren't you saying Monte Carlo should be long gone?
Didn't they want to add Japan a while back because of Toyota's return to the sport?
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