Maybe not so much praise for Åhlin as Evans was actually the fastest on all the 'live' stages, all except SS3 where he got a puncture and lost the rally ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
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Maybe not so much praise for Åhlin as Evans was actually the fastest on all the 'live' stages, all except SS3 where he got a puncture and lost the rally ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
well, that´s rallying, isn´t it.
The faster didn't won.
But half of your stage times not counting isn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Ahlin had a total time lower than Evans even if the actual time taken is used so yes the fastest did win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
At first I couldn't understand what is going on there. Are Brits living in medieval times? Speed limits on a RALLY? Whole Europe is laughing at them.
And we don't know if fastest didn't win. I think Evans would make time up in normal circumstances.
Jesus! People are far more outraged about this than they need to be. It's a balls up, they've acknowledged it was a balls up and we'll now have some shitty little chicanes thrown in to more of the quick stages to keep the speed down. I also can't believe how difficult it is for some people to understand that this is a REQUIREMENT of the insurance.
Yes it's a pain that bogey times exist, but it's not exactly a new feature of rallying and is sadly a necessary evil (either we have the average speed limits or we have no rally, it's as simple as that). Okay so other countries do it differently, but the British Rally Championship wouldn't be the BRC if it ran in Finland would it?! So for as long as the BRC is run in Britain it will fall under the MSA banner, which means it has the MSA insurance, which means that bogey times will continue to exist.
Organizers should avoid that issue. Simple.
Elfyn Evans:
“It’s not been a good weekend as the puncture ruined any chance of the win but second was on the cards if the event had been longer. The bogey times really effected the weekend not allowing us to claw back the time but Fredrik drove brilliantly and deserves the win."
Punctures are a part of rallying, so that's just bad luck. But having a significant portion of the already limited stage mileage not counting is pretty poor. I can think of plenty of other sports were the participants/ media, etc would demand answers and action.
Maybe not outraged, but if look at it from the outside it is just ridiculous. I know that rules are rules, but maybe some people need to rethink regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan
Couple of nice videos showing the modern and historic's in action...
https://youtu.be/h1-QkJKowh8
https://youtu.be/vX7Y-B30Ymw
More chicane's ? Hmmm...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChX3hCUW0AEH3e3.jpg
Simple? Do you really think that trying to guess the average speed of a field of top level drivers through say 10 miles of forest track is easy? Perhaps you should offer your expert services to the organising team (many of whom will be volunteers, quite possibly without even covering expenses) for next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Are you being deliberately obtuse? If insurance wants average speed to be capped then the regulations have to operate within that, they can rethink the Blue Book until the end of days, but it won't change the fact that the MSA won't be able to get insurance cover or it will be prohibitively expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by b3637853
Trying to reason with British autism is a lost war...
Do the insurance companies want those stupid bogey times (which I heard about for the first time in my life this past weekend)? Is that their 'solution?' Or did the MSA/the organisers/whoever else come up with that idea?
I think nobody in here is denying the organisers can just ignore the rules, but there are a lot more sensible and effective ways to enforce lower average speeds than by using bogey times.
Yes (or at least when I have asked MSA representatives that is certainly what I have been told.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
I know enough organisers to be confident in saying that organisers hate bogey times just as much as competitors (and they also hate chicanes).Quote:
Or did the MSA/the organisers/whoever else come up with that idea?
So please tell us about other solutions (but keep in mind that the Forestry Commission only allow a much more restricted choice of roads these days compared to the past)?Quote:
I think nobody in here is denying the organisers can just ignore the rules, but there are a lot more sensible and effective ways to enforce lower average speeds than by using bogey times.
I believe Mirek summed up some better solutions which are used in CZ. Cancelling the second pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Liddle
But OK, it's not like there would be much milage left in UK rallies these days if a stage gets cancelled.
I just stated that people who created the rule about speed limit in rally should get some sense. Obviously organisers have to obey the rules as rally couldn't take place. But just look at this from the outside. What If I told you there is a rally organised somewhere and the drivers can't use 5th gear. Ridiculous isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan
It is an interesting solution but it seems to me that it makes a small number of competitors at the front of the field happy but if a stage second run is cancelled then the majority of the competitors who couldn't get close to the bogey are unhappy.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
I think it's clear to all who displays the autistic traits.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3637853
Personally I think the ridiculous thing is the lack of understanding for the rules in the sport by its fans, and more so the harsh attitude to a small group of people who gave up their time to organise this event and got it wrong. Get over yourselves guys cause one thing you can be sure of is that the organisers will still be feeling the humiliation of what happened at the weekend long after you've all moved on to something new. It's a shame what happened but as far as I can see the only person really affected by it all was Elfyn Evans who lost 2nd place and a joint lead in the BRC.
I don't know for sure, however I believe that the insurers would want some mitigation to keep speeds down.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
In regards to more effective ways of lowering speeds, remember that choice of what stages can be used is increasingly limited by land owners, so sometimes all that's available is quick stuff and the simplest way to reduce speeds on that is to insert chicanes. As you say stage miles are already heavily limited for a lot of events, one of the downsides of being a tiny island without huge swathes of forest to play in.
A bit like reasoning with you....also it would be nice if you didn't compare some trivial motorsport regulations with a serious mental illness.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Take it up with the insurance industry then, don't start complaining about the volunteers (that's in bold because I don't think people realise it enough) that organised the event. The whole point of what we're saying is that the regulation had to be created in order for any rally in the UK to get the insurance required for it to run. What's ridiculous is that supposedly well informed fans aren't clever enough to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by b3637853
Dear Martin, I believe the whole thing shall be about safety. Hiding the real time but actually running the stage makes nothing for the safety at all. Moreover it means the risk the crews take on such "unsafe stage" is for nothing. Cancelation of such stage is for sure radical but it's fair and safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Liddle
The bogie times on this event were a mess, but the important thing is to learn the lesson and avoid having this trouble again on the series.
BRC has fulfilled rally fans expectations. Entry lists are amazing, just like the majority of the chosen events routes and there’s also a nice coverage on the media.
The championship revamp it’s great for British and Global rallying. It’d be a shame wasting the hard work with such easy to fix issues. Having more chicanes or to choose slightly slower routes can’t be that hard.
Btw, Ahlin is giving a nice fight to Evans and Wilson can become a new outsider, besides Bogie or Cave. McCormack speed in the old S2000 Fabia is also amazing (he’s he really using Khumo’s?). Many interesting stuff to keep following BRC.
Mirek said the essential: Hide the time don't cut the "risk"
No problem with bogey times. Just make a rule saying the cars only can use bicycle tyres (eg. standard 155x15) adn of course try to use farmers transit roads for stages.
Agree. With this kind of regulations the rally was not safe nor fair about results. And it is not the case of understanding the "bogey times". It's not a rocket science. This whole thread is saying that rally fans don't want rallies to be forced to conduct this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Average speeds might be the least of peoples worries in this country if Natural Resources Wales has it's own way...
https://www.msauk.org/Open-letter-fr...hief-Executive
Personally speaking, this a bigger issue for the national/ club events held in Wales; as there are a lot of events that use the Welsh forests.
Believe it or not, RallyGB doesn't have to be held in Wales - in fact the MSA should be moving it around, and trying to grow the sport instead of taking the short term gain/ Welsh Assembly cash.
It has to be said, the sport in the UK seems to be on borrowed time; forest allowance being cut by the year - and the closed road rallying solution seems to have stagnated.
I mentioned this problem last week in the general BRC 2016 thread but there was no response...
In other news, DMACK Tyres threaten to pull-out of the BRC over 'Bogeygate' on the Pirelli Rally...
Anyone know when the highlights of the Pirelli are going to be shown.. or have I missed them ??
Next week (14th) at 7:30 on C4.
Today on MotorsTV (19.20 GMT).Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan