Well, the Ferrari wasn't really up to scratch this weekend, and extracting the max out of it is a sign of a driver's skill, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by kfzmeister
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Well, the Ferrari wasn't really up to scratch this weekend, and extracting the max out of it is a sign of a driver's skill, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by kfzmeister
Yeah but not Kimi's. I know he loves racing but I wonder if the motivation for F1 just isn't there.
... and Nico, looking at the now-clearing sky, saying "... you hate me, don't you?..."
Ferrari and Vettel were thinking on their feet in the changing conditions of the race. They stole 3rd by outwitting Williams.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Dynamic strategic thinking during the race has been a noticeable weakness at the Williams pitwall all of this season. They have not been able to maximize their race potential and that reflects the point difference between them and Ferrari whom have consistently outwitted the William's pit wall; and making a step forward as well in previous races ofcourse.
That said, Williams nearly pulled a Heather Watson today. They can be very please with their performance today. They definitely put on a ballsy fight and gave the Mercedes pitwall a real fright. On the whole, Williams was impressive. But they have to make some changes to their pit wall as their drivers are paying the price for their lack lustre strategies on race sundays.
It was unbelievable to see Kimi's race fall apart with the wrong tyre choice. He drove very well today, beating Vettel all weekend but somehow pulling the short straw on race day. Some drivers have all the luck and Vettel made his by using his astute head to beat his team mate and both Williams. That was a drive of a Four times World Champion, even when the odds were against him. wow from 7th to 3rd
Seeing the Winner's gold trophy next to the trophy for 2nd and 3rd, it occurred to me that Hamilton was right about how poor trophies have become recently. The trophys for 2nd and 3rd looked really ordinary compared to the gold trophy. I hope they improve them for next year. I wonder which track has the worst trophy this season.
Yup and Vettel had a fantastic race. To me it was one of his best drives because he performed when the car didn't which is the first time I can really remember seeing that from him. He out drove the car, especially in the last 20 laps of the race!Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
I think it's about time for Kimi Raikkonen to retire. It's just going from bad to worse for him and it's just getting embarrassing now. Terrible today!
Great British GP - Silverstone always throws up some fantastic excitement!
It seems like Williams chassis was not setup to do well in the wet conditions. They would have lost podiums with or without better strategy and pit stops.
I agree really. Ultimately they ruined there chances of an unlikely win with a poor strategy call, but after the rain came, the car was no where. Drivers or strategy calls then couldn't help them. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by zako85
They were a little bit fortunate too. Vettel was something around 10 seconds behind the Williams pair, and that extra 10 seconds to decide whether to pit was quite beneficial since it was just when the weather was turning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
I had heard that fact as well by an F1 Analyst after the race. Ferrari was actually in a good situation by being behind and watching what the front runners were doing. Turns out that one call they made did not work out well at all, and another one happened to do the trick. It would not have taken much and a Russian in a RB very likely should have been on the podium!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
The 10 seconds deficit of Vettel really underline how Williams dropped the ball, even with a car not set up for the wet, they could have tried taking some risks by splitting the strategies by pitting Bottas when Hamilton pitted to release him from Massa. Chance are that the Ferrari would have overtaken the Williams cars anyway as the Ferrari of Vettel was working brilliantly in the wet compared to the Williams. Nonetheless, they would have made it harder for Vettel and may have had one of their cars ahead at the end of the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
I agree, they should have split strategies at that point. Of the various strategy mistakes that can be seen in retrospect, that's the one that they should have avoided I think. Splitting strategies means one driver will end up feeling hard-done-by though, and they seem fixated on avoiding anything that might be seen as unfair treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Yup .Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Felipe will implode if he sniffs any favouritism for his team mate .
"Felipe , Valteri is faster than you ." would be all fragile "Felipe baby" hears .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
I was sure l heard Rod Smedley choking at the thought of that [Felipe, Bottas is faster than you]. Ferrari split theirs and it paid off handsomely, but did Kimi no favours. It is a hard call, but that is racing. You just have to take chances sometimes and see what the dice turns up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Of Course, if they got it horribly wrong, they would be heavily criticized as usual for taking risk. There is no easy decision, just luck and a stiff upper lip.
Does anybody have any explanation of Rosberg's speed prior to Hamilton's stop? Those were the exact conditions where a driver's supposed ability comes to the fore.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Actually, Rosberg was disappointing at the Silverstone. His charge was belated. He didn't take the fight to Lewis at all. He could have prevented the gap from existing in the first place by sticking with Lewis as he forged his way forward past Bottas and Massa. He had a sniff at passing Bottas and he could not pull it off in a similar situation to lewis who pulled his off. He was only able to pass the williams when they had problems in the wet. Not by pure race determination to break through. He drove a race of waiting for opportunities to come to him rather than make it happen which is a mark of a true champion. That is why Vettel is special, making a disadvantage of 8th position into a podium of 3rd.That is why Hamilton is special, making 3rd into 1st.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Vettel benefittd from a fortunately timed stop. Rosberg caught up 1.5-2 seconds a lap when the conditions were at their most compromising. That explanation is a fail.
Being able to read the race and take the sort of actions that is a game changer that exploits the changing situation and redefine what is attainable is a mark of a true champion. That is what separates Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso from the rest of the grid.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Vettels moving from 8th to 3rd was not simply fortuitous, it was calculated and executed with determination. Not something to be belittled. I like Rosberg, but to be objective, he did not bring about a worthy challenge which most of us were hoping to see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to know why Rosberg was able to catch up to Hamilton at an abnormal rate, when conditions meant the driver contributed most to performance. Not everything other than that.
I that case, l suppose the wetter part of track where Hamilton was, was 2 seconds a lap slower than the drier part of the track that Rosberg was. Same car, different track conditions. Nothing particularly spectacular going on buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Cause he's magic like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
If you've got no idea. then don't bother trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
More plausible than what Nitrodaze has said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Oh Rosberg, How sublime he drove. Like a magic carpet, he floated across the wet tracks of Silverstone like nothing since Fangio. Blinding drive wasn't it. With a bit of luck he would have won the race, don't you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
hmm
The tire pressures on Hamilton's car had gone down and due to this his tires were finished. That's why Rosberg was so much faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
NO! Everyone should just admit that this proves Nico Rosberg is much better than Lewis and always was. :D
Like I said. If you've got no idea, don't bother trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Hamilton's tyres may've been finished, and the pressures may've gone down. But Hamilton stopped on lap 20, and Rosberg stopped on lap 21. Rosberg had the disadvantage of being stuck in the dirty air of both Williams, effects the tyres even more that the clear air Hamilton was in. Whatever Hamilton suffered. In theory, Rosberg should've suffered as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Can you explain why Hamilton's tyres were shot and pressures fell because of it, and Rosberg's car didn't suffer?
Even with the smilie. It's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
Well, the likelihood, is that he simply managed his tires better on this occasion. It's not the first time we've seen Rosberg be faster than Hamilton in those conditions due to better tire management. I think this area is probably Hamilton's greatest and, possibly only, weakness as a driver right now. It's an area he needs to improve on. If he can do that, I think he would be the quickest and most complete driver on the grid, even surpassing Alonso.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
Here's my guess at why it happened like that. When rain starts to fall, it often results in gaps closing up. There is a psychological effect of the current leader feeling they have more to lose in the treacherous conditions, and a practical one in that the leader is the pathfinder who has to guess the grip on each part of the track, while the follower can gauge the leader's pace. The effect becomes self-reinforcing as the follower pushes harder, and keeps more heat in their tyres, while the leader drives a little more conservatively and as a result loses tyre temperature sooner.
Well, at least that gives me something to think about.
My guess is that in the position of desperation. Rosberg just smoked him, and Hamilton had no answer on the track. If Rosberg was annoyed. I suspect he'd be ruing the fact he had Hamilton's number, but his advantage was negated by a fortunately timed stop and rain tyres.
Well, at least that gives me something to think about.
My guess is that in the position of desperation. Rosberg just smoked him, and Hamilton had no answer on the track. If Rosberg was annoyed. I suspect he'd be ruing the fact he had Hamilton's number, but his advantage was negated by a fortunately timed stop and rain tyres.
As long as I have followed F1, even during a race there are fluctuations. Sometimes driver A is lapping faster, sometimes Driver B. There is no reason to overanalyze one specific part where Rosberg was faster. Hamilton beat him fair and square by the chequered flag.
It reminds me some of the early season arguments that Räikkönen was "faster" than Vettel, just because in some parts of the race he seemed to have better lap-times. This despite Vettel finishing well ahead at the chequered flag. Let's not start clutching at straws.
Yup, exactly. No one driver can get it right all the time. It's the ones that get it right the most that distinguish the good from the great. For example, take how Hamilton has pretty much obliterated Rosberg last and especially this year. Rosberg is a very lucky boy to be so close to Hamilton in this years championship indeed. There should realistically be a net 34 points between them. It's only due to the Monaco fiasco he's less than a race win to him but I'm sure that will all balance itself out throughout the year, either through reliability or another Mercedes blunder. But with a 5-3 win ratio (should be 6-2) and 8-1 in qualifying, all in Hamilton's favor, those statistics speak for themselves. But, as I said, I'm sure it will all even out even though there may be one or two further races where Rosberg has 5-10 minutes duration of being fast than Hamilton.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I asked a specific question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I could ask about any moment in the race (anyone could ask any question), like why the Williams beat the MB off the line? But I specifically asked about Rosberg's pace, because if was a remarkable gain and an unexpected performance.
Do you understand?
Ok :)Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman racer
I think the general feeling/consensus was that Hamilton's lack of pace in that little portion of race owed a lot to a setup mistake - too much understeer, which caused problems heating up the tyres. This is basically what I heard. Just happens I guess. He didn't get it right that time.
I think that's probably true as form doesn't show Hamilton struggles too much in the wet. There was Japan last year for example, where Rosberg was overtaken around the outside in Japan last year in the rain - with Hamilton faster by such a margin (and for longer) it had dj on here screaming and spluttering that it was SO unfair! :p
EDIT: Not to do Rosberg down though. He did a fine job I think. I have always rated him highly as has TBK IIRC... or was it truefan, now I cant remember. I certainly think he's pushed Hamilton more than Jenson did.
It is certainly an interesting claim. While Rosberg and Button have pretty different strengths, their net result compared to Hamilton has basically been the same. Obviously there was one season, where Hamilton fell apart and Button beat him (2011). Other than that it has been LH ahead most of the time with his team-mate occasionally also getting a better result, but usually finishing 5-10-20 seconds down the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
So if NR and JB were driving in the same team, I think they'd basically even in points. Would be a fantastic battle.:p:
I forgot to mention though that since Jenson tends to drive better the better the car is, he would probably do very well in the Mercedes, while Rosberg's racecraft is a little suspect, something I noticed back in the MS days, and he might have suffered more if he was driving the McLaren instead of Jenson, being much more in the pack than he is with the Mercedes.
I don't know about true fan but I have always rated Rosberg's driving ability extremely high and I stated before Hamilton went to Mercedes that I didn't think he would be as easy to surmount as Button. I was right!Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbetty
It's only when he cheats (especially when he gets away with it twice) that I have had an issue with him. If he beats Hamilton in a straight fair fight then I'll always be totally fine with that!
Aha so it was you, thought so. Yup that's how I feel. As for cheating I wasn't happy with Monaco, cos nothing was acknowleged but what really got me was that somehow, Hamilton was the one who came out that episode as the bad guy and it was left at that! Especially by that, and sorry for this, but that pr1ck Warwick (I didn't care so much about Stewart since I expect nothing less). The way I've always understood things, that's messed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I too was very disappointed in Nico as I also thought he was better than that.
Any bitterness over that is maybe justified, it sure beats being bitter because my favourite driver was 'smoked' by Ricciardo (oh I'm being naughty).
I know you have always congratulated Rosberg when he wins fairly. That's why I'm not sure why JR says we're a stain on motorsport :confused: ??
Especially when M.Schumacher comes in for so much disdain for cheating, but then Nico does the same thing and it's nothing to see here and no-one should be unhappy about it.
Just like Keke actually.