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Back to the roots?!? Attracting more people (including manufacturers) to the sport?!? Someone mentioned WRC already have attracted enough manufacturers for now. But weren't Toyota waiting for '17 regulations to come in?!? Perhaps VW will also commit to longer involvement beyond '19?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
These changes are very similar to those implemented in WTCC last year. They made TC1 cars more aggressive and powerful, without a significant raise of development and running costs.
The main difference, and problem, in these WRC new regs is the return of active diffs. WRC2.0T cars had highly costly transmission systems that required a level of technical sophistication difficult to achieved. WRC1.6T will steadily reach that level, probably making even harder for other manus to break VW dominance...
Not really. Even 2014-current Marklund's Polo shares the same bodykit as WRC counterpart. (2013 spec was based from WRC proto)Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
And M-Sport Fiesta is basically WRC with engine steroid.
I think they're doing it because clearly no one within the FIA who makes technical decisions knows what they're doing.
I read in Autosport today that the justification for the electronically control centre diffs was that it makes it easier to set the cars up and would result in less need for testing. However anything that pillock David Evans writes for Autosport/Motorsport News is usually a load of dross written with a crayon.
That and it seems they also lack any memory longer than the last Press release for Immediate Release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
On the other hand, Ford and Citroën already have a lot (something like 10 years?) of experience with the active differentials in competition, while VW doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
That's not true. VW took people from other teams and they naturally brought their know how with them. You can't say F-X Demaison has no experience with active diffs. Can You? ;)
True that a lot of knowledge is there, but still I think that Ford and Citroën have some basis to build on that VW doesn't have (yet). We'll have to wait and see... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Personally I think these new regulations is the wrong way to go. The cars are getting even faster in the corners, even more dependent on aerodynamics, and more dangerous, and not more exiting to watch.
What we need is:
- More exiting to watch (wich means more than a body kit).
- Less corner speed (safety)
- More and better sound
This can easily be achieved by:
- Regulated damper travel
- Passive diffs (as now)
- Regulated aerodynamics
- Higher revs (bigger restrictors)
High horespower is not a problem, but high downforce and long damper travel is.
Cars needs to look fast, and that is not achieved by ironing out every bump, jump, or crest.
See this video to know what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LX0FbST_zo
This looks and sounds fast! (But is MUCH slower than todays WRC cars)
I fear this development will end in disaster. In an event like Poland, or other evenst with poor spectator magament, a car even faster in the corners could spell disaster.
Also for the drivers a car You can go "flat" with over every bump takes away the need too feel the road, where You must slow down, etc.
Hmmm... I really wonder what is the logic behind these desicions, as I dont see any clear sign of it. It is well meaning, and talented people behind descisions like these, but I just dont see it.
Off topic but I never understood why Juha Kankkunen preferred his pace notes in English, even with a Finnish co-driver!
At about 0:33 the car goes over a small dip and the front-right wheel is in clear air for a split second. Very small detail to notice but that's the kind of thing that makes the cars look more spectacular going through a stage.
It makes me think of a Citroen with hydragas suspension: https://youtu.be/Yl6EYKRdfu4 In the context of this video the Citroen looks hilarious but let's face it, it's making less of a display than the Mercedes, Audi and FIAT on those bumps
Earlier in his career and for so many years he had English speaking co-drivers so he was so used to listen to English notes so he preferred English even with a Finnish co-drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
If the guy is talking about overall setup for a car, an active central differential will help (I assume) but if talking only about the central differential it’s a lot easier to make setups to the current “central differential”.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
now this should replace the polo!!!! if only....Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
This is actually based on Pikes Peak S1, but still a nice idea....
Focus RS 2017
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK7HZBbWIAEXKS0.jpg:large
Nice concept that's not going to happen. The new Focus RS is a 5-door car, also the Fiesta has the perfect basis for a WRC.
JESUS F* CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
I REALLY HOPE to see things like that in 2017
I sincerely hope not. Sports cars ... yes, but once rally cars lose their connection to everyday transport the sport will lose all relevance and the majority of it's following.
Wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
Think cars like 037, delta S4, RS 200, quattro, celica. Those were not "everyday transport" and people were following...
Not wrong. Generally Group B cars were derivatives of cars people could either buy or associate with. They looked like cars (S4 excepted), not like some futuristic plastic toy.
Not really. Those cars were built only in homologation series of 200 pieces which had nearly nothing common with the original stock "name holder". The few pieces from homologation series not being used for competition were a lot more rare cars than the most expensive Ferrari or Lamborgini cars of the time.
For example Peugeot 205 T16 had a lot less common with stock 205 (the basic mass produced variant) than Fiesta WRC with stock Fiesta. The later share at least the bodyshell
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
That happened both during the Group B era...205 having just the headlights and grille and sharing nothing else including being a much much larger car (around 99+ inches wheelbase vs sub 96" on the road car..Metro shared nothing, RS200 used Sierra glass and dash and a few other parts but nothing really meaningful) and with the introduction of the World Rally Car
subset of Group A rules..
Cow's out of the barn long ago..
And probably explains a large degree of the fall in participation and viewership.
Those absurd looking child's drawings caricatures just above look ridiculous to me.. But then again I am not a 14 year old boys who plays video games. Which IS the "target demographic".
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
You could however buy one of the 200 base models and it was---somehow---"street legal".
And I've seen some on the road..
Didn't matter how much it had in common with the road going version at all. Fact was it could be identified as an off shoot from the road going car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Exactly the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I don't agree with You, often they didn't share even the shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
This is how Delta S4 looked and below is how stock Delta looked...
http://www.zmphoto.it/forum/foto/165...-----rally.jpg
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimag...delta%2003.jpg
50-100 pieces for the whole Globe. Really nice of them. It's hardly more difficult to buy WRC car and drive it to supermarket...Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
I will see your lancia example and raise you this one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Attachment 728
It would have been better if the R5 and WRC cars were built around a space frame, like in the Group B-era, or like Peugeots Pikes Peak winner.
A space frame is "easy" to modify, so You can change the wheelbase, track with etc, whitout making a whole new car, and You can also change the bodywork, whitout building a whole new car.
This is how they do it in American motorsport (Nascar, Dragracing etc). Its potentially a huge cost saver to do it like this.
I agree with that.
In swedish stcc/tta, they use a french car, solution-F. Just fit your wished chassis, then race.
Everyone has the same point of stand, the best driver/team winns.
Maybe not interresting for VW, but lots of other teams, like m-sport, prodrive, tmr, bozian, and smaller teams like adapta and weavers would be on it with a small support from a car-manufacturer.
Oddly enough since we agree on so much else, I disagree...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
You know i work with steel things for 405 years now, light tube constructions and I live here where rally is a very sad joke and Circle track is KING..
And yeah the costs of CIRCLE track tube structures are amazingly cheap---and many are completely done in China now so the price is unusually low---
And the choices of hubs and uprights and links and brakes and all kinds of parts are crazy cheap..
But whole cars are still expensive....and they are extremely crude things..
But mainly it is the strength of the modern type INTEGRATED cage and shell is more than the sum of the strength of the cage and the shell separately...
The cars are enormously stronger and they are much safer that tube things
you can make your tube-chassis as strong or safe as you wish. f1 doesn't have a shell either.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Of course.. at a cost..Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
and as Competition boss for Citroen said way back in the Clio days "we complained bitterly when we first had to make Group a cars... Then one of our guys pointed out that we make efforts to make road cars strong and safe, isn't kind of pointless to throw away all that effort? Add to it."
You cannot see similarity between the road car and rally car?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
None! - Except the name.
then you should have your eyes checked... the only difference are the added plastic aero parts at the back and front.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
The point is that both technically and visually there is a lot more difference between stock Delta and gr.B Delta than between any stock recent car and it's WRC version and that will most likely stay unchanged even with 2017 rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
Hmm.. you're right... but I'd rather have the street cars with rear wings, air intakes, aerodynamic pieces instead of a WRC car more likely to its road relevant.....Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt