Your ideas to fix Indycar

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Originally Posted by garyshell

What bottom line are we chasing here? The most recent quraterly P&L or a long term vision of the bottom line? Trouble is that the folks at the helm were looking at the former and should have been more concenred about the longer term, which is where I think Randy had his eye.

Gary

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RB was brought in to fix the series. Under him Attendance and TV numbers for events either dropped or remained virtually stagnant in almost 2 and a half years with no sign of it improving.

He did manage to move IndyCar from a Dallara Spec Series to.............a Dallara Spec Series, raised costs and alienated the owners.

Some call the new engine package a positive...I don't. He did allow Penske to bring in Chevy but he is also responsible for courting Lotus.

No. The Owners weren't looking at Quarterlies. They were looking at over 2 years of failure with nothing at all pointing to an improvement.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

RB was brought in to fix the series. Under him Attendance and TV numbers for events either dropped or remained virtually stagnant in almost 2 and a half years with no sign of it improving.

He did manage to move IndyCar from a Dallara Spec Series to.............a Dallara Spec Series, raised costs and alienated the owners.

Some call the new engine package a positive...I don't. He did allow Penske to bring in Chevy but he is also responsible for courting Lotus.

No. The Owners weren't looking at Quarterlies. They were looking at over 2 years of failure with nothing at all pointing to an improvement.

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Stick a fork in it...

Don't be surprised if the series is disbanded after the Indy 500. And 2014 only has 1 race, the Indy 500. I have no inside info, just going with my gut.

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Originally Posted by Blancvino

Don't be surprised if the series is disbanded after the Indy 500. And 2014 only has 1 race, the Indy 500. I have no inside info, just going with my gut.

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This won't happen, despite how poorly the series handles its affairs at times.

We'll have a full season of racing, in 2013, even after the 500. We should also have a series in 2014 and through 2018 (and beyond). One needs to keep track of what transpires after the current NBCSports contract tuns out.

I hope no one freaks when Izod goes away, but the thing to alos watch is if GM and or Honda go away. I'm not at all saying they are, but if that were to happen, then your scenario above could become reality.

Continuing with spec formula is a disaster and it's a matter of time before it's all over.

We do not have the TV ratings or money, to do anything but have a spec series. There is no other way for now, but we can only hope to increase ratings so we can try to have something like we did. Teh owners just spent a year baning Dallara to get a savings of $50K/entry....and RB was booted becuase of the $10 million deficit.

I'm not saying thats right, but it is the way it is. speaking of which, Gordon Kirby has some great articles about the spilt on his "The Way It Is" blog. You might have to go back a ways, but he has some great information there.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is: Archive List


I'd give everything to see how the cars/series would look had we never had a split. My guess is it would be quite spectacular...

Here is a good (sad) one by Kirby:

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is

.....his article correclty predicted the (sad) future.

Horse power ( 100 plus) and a Drop dead ,best designed ever, where the F did that come from look. And please drop Dallara , I do not care how much TG and BB get under the table.
LOOKS,LOOKS, LOOKS ! and HP

Barnhart to be named IndyCar CEO - What's that you hear? Why that is the woosh of a flushing loo.

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

We do not have the TV ratings or money, to do anything but have a spec series. There is no other way for now, but we can only hope to increase ratings so we can try to have something like we did. Teh owners just spent a year baning Dallara to get a savings of $50K/entry....and RB was booted becuase of the $10 million deficit.

I'm not saying thats right, but it is the way it is. speaking of which, Gordon Kirby has some great articles about the spilt on his "The Way It Is" blog. You might have to go back a ways, but he has some great information there.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is: Archive List


I'd give everything to see how the cars/series would look had we never had a split. My guess is it would be quite spectacular...

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Thanks for the link, and I like this one very much

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is

I heard the exact opposite on Monday. I'm going to guess there is another internal power struggle....not good.

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

I heard the exact opposite on Monday. I'm going to guess there is another internal power struggle....not good.

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I suspect that if BB is back in charge, then Beau will be out. Don't see someone with BB's ego allowing the person who upstaged him to be around. That would be a disaster if Beau was gone. The first credibility for Race Control in many years.

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Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is

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Another polite way of saying to get ready to stick a fork in it....

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Originally Posted by Don Capps

Another polite way of saying to get ready to stick a fork in it....

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The car count is looking good, at 25 (if Dragon and Coyne run two, not counting 'Dinger) and I'm looking forward to seeing how these two race/weekend events pan out.

There are some good stories, SDS/TK, Changes at AA, SMP's adding Vautier, 'Dinger, and no Lotus!

And, we get Turbo in July!

We'll be alright for this coming year (fingers crossed!).

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

The car count is looking good, at 25 (if Dragon and Coyne run two, not counting 'Dinger) and I'm looking forward to seeing how these two race/weekend events pan out.

There are some good stories, SDS/TK, Changes at AA, SMP's adding Vautier, 'Dinger, and no Lotus!

And, we get Turbo in July!

We'll be alright for this coming year (fingers crossed!).

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What's the story with Katherine legge?

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

I heard the exact opposite on Monday. I'm going to guess there is another internal power struggle....not good.

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AR1 now saying this rumor was false. I must admit when someone emailed me the rumor, I was shocked, as this was not what I was hearing. One of the attributes they are looking for is someone with TV/Media experience, which would seem logical.

I have no idea what happned to Legge at Dragon other than there appears to a be a dispute on just who brought Truecar to the team, KL or JP. Coyne still has two tba's....so who knows, but I would guess Wilson and Briscoe would be a top the pecking order.

More about Katherine Legge and her argument with Jay Penske. Kate is pissed!

Legge reacts to Dragon dismissal - Racer.com

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

More about Katherine Legge and her argument with Jay Penske. Kate is pissed!

Legge reacts to Dragon dismissal - Racer.com

Gary

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I am a bit surprised she made her decision to pursue Dragon through legal means, public. That could be a career killer no matter if she has a case or not. I’m not sure what other car owner would want to put her in a car after this. I think it would have been best for her to resolve this legally, behind closed doors.

Another display of quality people involved in the series. Easier and esier to give up on this jokers. Looking from the point of human sense of decency and fairness, the way how they conduct business in that operation is completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

We do not have the TV ratings or money, to do anything but have a spec series.

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I hear that all the time and yet the ALMS, Grand-Am, WC and even the SCCA are doing OK.

Open up the rules.

Let Penske, Ganassi and Andretti fight for the championship and the rest of the teams battle for the crumbs. It is what we have now anyway.

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

I am a bit surprised she made her decision to pursue Dragon through legal means, public. That could be a career killer no matter if she has a case or not. I’m not sure what other car owner would want to put her in a car after this. I think it would have been best for her to resolve this legally, behind closed doors.

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What career? She stunk it up in the DTM and failed to impress anyone in IndyCar.

Apparently she was offered a buy out by TRUEcar and she refused. She should have taken the money and gone to NASCAR Trucks

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

What career? She stunk it up in the DTM and failed to impress anyone in IndyCar.

Apparently she was offered a buy out by TRUEcar and she refused. She should have taken the money and gone to NASCAR Trucks

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If she was in a contractual situation with TRUEcar, it was her option whether or not to accept a buyout. If she refused, then TRUEcar was obligated to fulfill the terms of the contract. If those terms included her in the car for the 2013 season, then she will prevail in any court of law. (I've used a lot of "ifs" since none of us have read the contract.)

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Originally Posted by Starter

If she was in a contractual situation with TRUEcar, it was her option whether or not to accept a buyout. If she refused, then TRUEcar was obligated to fulfill the terms of the contract. If those terms included her in the car for the 2013 season, then she will prevail in any court of law. (I've used a lot of "ifs" since none of us have read the contract.)

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You don't think that TRUEcar had an "out" written into the contract? I Seriously doubt that they would dismiss her without that.

Also one would think that a driver would take the money and not get a reputation as a litigious sort instead of wanting to stay on a team that obviously didn't want her further eroding her reputation as a driver.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

You don't think that TRUEcar had an "out" written into the contract? I Seriously doubt that they would dismiss her without that.

Also one would think that a driver would take the money and not get a reputation as a litigious sort instead of wanting to stay on a team that obviously didn't want her further eroding her reputation as a driver.

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What part of "(I've used a lot of "ifs" since none of us have read the contract.)" did you not understand?

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Originally Posted by C3PO

IRL was far more succesful than current CC 2.0. Since the IndyCar and the CC "merged" and the schedule full off boring street wreckfests the viewership fall every year.

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Wow, I thought it and you said it. I have nothing against road/street courses but I can remember when we had full grandstands at Nashville, Kentucky, Chicagoland and Homestead far before the merge.. Today? We lost the most great ovals because the races were terribly attended and guess when this started to happen? Indeed, after the merge and it became worse when Randy Bernard came in..

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Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

Wow, I thought it and you said it. I have nothing against road/street courses but I can remember when we had full grandstands at Nashville, Kentucky, Chicagoland and Homestead far before the merge.. Today? We lost the most great ovals because the races were terribly attended and guess when this started to happen? Indeed, after the merge and it became worse when Randy Bernard came in..

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Easy there irl fan, those tracks you mentioned where never full or profitable. Only reason some of the people showed up where free tickets as part of nascar package. I live in north side of Chicago and Milwaukee mile is closer for me and better track for Indycar than nascar track in Joliet il in the middle of nowhere. Stop this old repetitive statements on the old formula that does not work instead focus on some new creative ideas like making car more interesting to drive and watch. It is not a type a track that is a problem its a spec club racing and amateur low tech car that needs to change.

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

Easy there irl fan, those tracks you mentioned where never full or profitable. Only reason some of the people showed up where free tickets as part of nascar package. I live in north side of Chicago and Milwaukee mile is closer for me and better track for Indycar than nascar track in Joliet il in the middle of nowhere. Stop this old repetitive statements on the old formula that does not work instead focus on some new creative ideas like making car more interesting to drive and watch. It is not a type a track that is a problem its a spec club racing and amateur low tech car that needs to change.

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Champ Car's very modern high-tech car didn't make their series popular either. In fact, already around 2003, IRL was far better than the rival series and it was back in then better than it was today. We had three manufacturers, two different chassis and some great racing going on. Full grandstands because of free tickets as a part of the NASCAR package? Explain then why the IRL already had full grandstands at Kentucky, before NASCAR Sprint Cup started to race there?

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Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

Explain then why the IRL already had full grandstands at Kentucky, before NASCAR Sprint Cup started to race there?

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Freebies and giveaways from sponsors. Remeber all those red heats that is now just plain aluminum? You should come, buy the ticket and help the cause instead writing ridiculous statements when it comes to present Indycar situation. Plenty empty stands now ,explain that. irl was better? Yep,that's why everything went down the hill with that creation ,and a genius who started it all.

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Originally Posted by C3PO

Merged? How many chimp car team still in the IndyCar? 1 or 2? It wasn't a real merger, Chimpycar simply died, because nobody watched it.

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No Champ Car team of any consequence except for Penske, Ganassi, Andretti, KV, Rahal Letterman & Dale Coyne......

..........But don't let a silly thing like facts get in the way of your reality.

A better TV package would be a huge step in the right direction. Returning to Michigan would also be great as well. Beyond that, I think a return to a "run what you brung" engine would be a good thing. No more engine leases and the engine swould be based off of a pre approved list of supplier parts and the teams would be responsible for building/rebuilding their own engines. Three Dyno test/research sessions per team (meaning Penske would get three just like KV would get three just like ECR would get three) and that's it. If the series mandated a specific list of parts, nothing exotic like titanium this or carbon fiber that, it would bring down costs on the costliest thing in the car.

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Originally Posted by mr nobody

A better TV package would be a huge step in the right direction. Returning to Michigan would also be great as well. Beyond that, I think a return to a "run what you brung" engine would be a good thing. No more engine leases and the engines would be based off of a pre approved list of supplier parts and the teams would be responsible for building/rebuilding their own engines. Three Dyno test/research sessions per team (meaning Penske would get three just like KV would get three just like ECR would get three) and that's it. If the series mandated a specific list of parts, nothing exotic like titanium this or carbon fiber that, it would bring down costs on the costliest thing in the car.

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OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!! An on topic post !!!!!!!!!! WT...H... are we gonna do with this ?????????? You ARE new aren't you ? LOLOLZZZ

yep, the split occurred and it does not matter which series was better, because like a house divided that could not stand...the result was only a question of time. :rolleyes:

So what is left of open wheel racing, with all the new bodywork, now looks more like a sports car series than open wheel racing......




Suggestions:

Must fix the bodywork so that there is close racing, with drafting and passes, and not some artificial tricks like silly rules, crummy tires and so forth. A great TV package is not going to do any good, if the racing is not there.

And need to develope some American names that make the general public feel an affinity for the drivers at the races as in the old days (these races are being held in the USA, after all). Now you have some british drivers that nobody ever heard of...winning the Indy 500..so who cares??


Face it, the only "name" the series had was Danica, who went off to Nascar. Debate how bad she was all you want to.....can not argue with you there.

But hell, she had the name that the AMERICAN public recognized like they used to recognize Foyt, Andretti, Unser, Parnelli Jones, Sneva.......

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Originally Posted by mr nobody

A better TV package would be a huge step in the right direction. Returning to Michigan would also be great as well. Beyond that, I think a return to a "run what you brung" engine would be a good thing. No more engine leases and the engine swould be based off of a pre approved list of supplier parts and the teams would be responsible for building/rebuilding their own engines. Three Dyno test/research sessions per team (meaning Penske would get three just like KV would get three just like ECR would get three) and that's it. If the series mandated a specific list of parts, nothing exotic like titanium this or carbon fiber that, it would bring down costs on the costliest thing in the car.

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I never understood why spec cars had to be made out of Carbon Fiber seems counter productive in the cost saving purpose.

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Originally Posted by Jared East

I never understood why spec cars had to be made out of Carbon Fiber seems counter productive in the cost saving purpose.

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They are more sophisticated and who wants to give that up? :D But, more importantly, they are much, much safer than aluminum monocoque or tube frame chassis.

These are all valid, costs, engine disparity, lack of Americans, lack of a real network until recently. But what we need that no one is mentioning for marketing is Marco Andretti to become his dad or granddad. Let's be honest, even if we get another 4 time winner, we probably will not make the cover of Sports Illustrated. Everyone here has a valid point but Marco winning consistenly and Winning Big ( Indy 500) would do wonders similar to Danica Mania. Marco gets you a Sports Illustrated Cover, Marco winning gets you main stream faster. Texas was the number 2 attended race by far, and because of conflicts we moved our series championship from there. Move that back, get 90K fans in the stands to see you. market , get costs, get sponsoers all of that, but one of the quickest ways to become main stream would be for the one household name to win, and carry our open wheel banner. That kind of name recognition, would go a long ways towards speeding up our beloved open wheel series recovery.

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Originally Posted by FoytFan14

These are all valid, costs, engine disparity, lack of Americans, lack of a real network until recently. But what we need that no one is mentioning for marketing is Marco Andretti to become his dad or granddad. Let's be honest, even if we get another 4 time winner, we probably will not make the cover of Sports Illustrated. Everyone here has a valid point but Marco winning consistenly and Winning Big ( Indy 500) would do wonders similar to Danica Mania. Marco gets you a Sports Illustrated Cover, Marco winning gets you main stream faster. Texas was the number 2 attended race by far, and because of conflicts we moved our series championship from there. Move that back, get 90K fans in the stands to see you. market , get costs, get sponsoers all of that, but one of the quickest ways to become main stream would be for the one household name to win, and carry our open wheel banner. That kind of name recognition, would go a long ways towards speeding up our beloved open wheel series recovery.

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Only one problem, Marco is not a winner and
cars make the stars not the other way around. Formula junior won't do a thing and I don't care who drives it or promotes it

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

cars make the stars not the other way around.

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Not in this century. When was the last time you saw the Red Bull RB5, the Ferrari F138 , the Penske Ford Fusion, the Tony Stewart Chevrolet SS etc. mentioned in the main stream media? What you did see was Vettle, Alonso, Keselowski or Stewart. Sure you might have seen the cars in some racing related blog or magazine, but the folks who read THOSE are not who needs to targeted if you want to REALLY grow a series. You need to bring back the non-gearhead fan.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Not in this century. When was the last time you saw the Red Bull RB5, the Ferrari F138 , the Penske Ford Fusion, the Tony Stewart Chevrolet SS etc. mentioned in the main stream media? What you did see was Vettle, Alonso, Keselowski or Stewart. Sure you might have seen the cars in some racing related blog or magazine, but the folks who read THOSE are not who needs to targeted if you want to REALLY grow a series. You need to bring back the non-gearhead fan.

Gary

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Really? Winning in formula 1 gives you instant recognition and stature as one of the best.Why? Not because of red bull sponsor on the car ,but because of skill and talent needed to tame the sophisticated racing beast of F1 car period. Vettel and Alonso would be nothing if not for F1 and if they race and won in nascar ,indycar, etc would mean nothing.
Please don't give me nascar example of staged infomercials ,staged soap opera phony fights etc. F1 is respected world championship and I guarantee you if they go spec and have bumpers it would go down like Indycar. How do you bring bring people to watch Indycar? Marco? Graham? We are Indy? Harlem shake? How do you promote club racing? I'm sure they would love to know your ideas over at Indy because whatever they tried in last 17 years is not working. I say must be the ugly slow cars that anyone with few bucks can drive.

I got news for you. Indy cars are harder to drive than f1, the series races on more diverse tracks and the indy car champ gets the champ title from winning on his own not some manufactured team orders not allowing team mates to race each other. FYI Sato is the first f1 driver to win an indy car race in a long long time. Heck F1 doesn't even take on anything but tires in their pit stops. Meh, ill take indy car and its fan friendly drivers over F1 any day.

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Originally Posted by Granatelli

I got news for you. Indy cars are harder to drive than f1, the series races on more diverse tracks and the indy car champ gets the champ title from winning on his own not some manufactured team orders not allowing team mates to race each other. FYI Sato is the first f1 driver to win an indy car race in a long long time. Heck F1 doesn't even take on anything but tires in their pit stops. Meh, ill take indy car and its fan friendly drivers over F1 any day.

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I can certainly understand a preference for IndyCar. Unfortunately, you have a couple of facts wrong. For instance, Sato was a backmarker in F1, so I'm not sure I'd put him up there for comparison, not to mention that he's been out of F1 for quite some time now. Driving spec, low horsepower cars isn't what I'd call a challenge to drivers no matter what surface or track type they run on. The team orders part I'll buy. When F1 did refuel during a race, their stops were much shorter than IndyCar, though they did use pressurized rigs instead of gravity flow.