BBC vs Sky - The Story so Far

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Originally Posted by henners88

I wonder if Sky will ever consider offering the F1 channel at a reasonable price as a bolt on for freeview viewers in the future?

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Highly unlikely. There's a very finite amount of bandwidth on Freeview and it would be wasteful to have a channel which most people would only be interested in for 4 hours per fortnight. A more likely scenario is making races available online on a PPV basis, but AFAIK they don't currently have the rights for this.

PS have you seen the latest updates to the Sky EPG? They've added a far better catch-up section including iPlayer, which doesn't even need a subscription, and pretty much duplicates everything YouView does. The software is still painfully slow, I'll grant you, because the boxes have less memory than a goldfish, but the functionality is excellent now.

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Originally Posted by henners88

The bandwidth is there to do it.

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Doesn't YouView have a permanent internet connection? In which case the bandwidth becomes irrelevant, it could support millions of channels. Freeview as delivered over the air only has a very limited capacity (hence the dire picture quality on most channels), and couldn't justify the F1 channel.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Probably a bigger factor was blowing the thick end of a billion quid on relocating to Manchester, which was instigated by the previous regime.

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Most of which will pay for itself: if they'd stayed in London they'd have practically had to rebuild TV Centre. The place is falling apart and riddled with asbestos and 70's wiring. Indeed they've already said that their Olympic coverage would have been technically impossible from the old facilities.

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Exactly.

Whereas, over the course of the "frozen" licence fee settlement, they'll lose fully a QUARTER of their income to inflation and the extra stuff it needs to pay for now (S4C, BBC World Service, BBC Monitoring, etc). That's more like a billion PER YEAR in lost income and extra expenditure by 2017.

True. However the freeze was necessary. The likes of the BBC cannot keep asking for more and more money and expect us just to pay up. I haven't had a wage rise for a long time either.

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Originally Posted by Mark

True. However the freeze was necessary. The likes of the BBC cannot keep asking for more and more money and expect us just to pay up. I haven't had a wage rise for a long time either.

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I agree that a freeze was a good thing, after all the BBC has become bloated and has its fingers in far too many pies. Indeed - and I say this as a massive F1 fan - it shouldn't be paying huge money for the rights to successful mainstream sports like F1 and football when commercial broadcasters are willing and able to screen then. But as somebody says, once you combine this freeze with the extra demands placed upon them by the coalition the BBC's position becomes very difficult indeed.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Its only its playback channels/programs that rely on an internet connection. It doesn't stream all its content from the internet and functions like a freeview box for live content. You can record live and it has HD channels too. The picture quality is not HD when watching programs from the last 7 days but the image quality isn't dire at all.

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That's my point: as a catchup device it functions much as a PC would, grabbing the streams from iPlayer, 4OD and so on. Therefore the number of channels is practically unlimited (and their picture quality only limited by the broadcaster's source material and your internet speed - can it really not access HD VOD?). Sky could easily launch an online channel which the YouView boxes and any other device could access, the only barrier being the rights to do so.

But for live broadcast it relies on the Freeview terrestrial transmitters, which can only support a finite number of channels (hence my comment about the dire PQ on many, but not all, of the channels as they're compressed like crazy to fit the limited spectrum) - and which is why I don't believe they'll ever devote such scare resource to a channel which would struggle for viewers outside of race weekends.

Sky commentary is rubbish, should have waited and watched the race on the BBC later. Probably will anyway....I'm so glad I am not paying for SKY as it is terrible...

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I agree that a freeze was a good thing, after all the BBC has become bloated and has its fingers in far too many pies. Indeed - and I say this as a massive F1 fan - it shouldn't be paying huge money for the rights to successful mainstream sports like F1 and football when commercial broadcasters are willing and able to screen then. But as somebody says, once you combine this freeze with the extra demands placed upon them by the coalition the BBC's position becomes very difficult indeed.

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I tend to agree with the view that it shouldn't be paying huge amounts for sports rights at such a time, but, equally, the reaction to the BBC losing what remains of its sports coverage would be such as to cause a different backlash. As with almost everything the BBC does, it seems, it's damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. And, in any case, there are so many other savings the BBC could make.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Loved Vettel shunning Sky in favour of the BBC with David Coulthard. 'Yeah but we are live' Brundle said desperately. The thing is they are both filming live and the Beeb reach more people.

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Dear oh dear, that is truly desperate.

The latter point is well made. Many sports need the BBC perhaps more than the BBC needs them. Snooker is one example. If Eurosport was available on UK Freeview just as it is in most mainland European countries, this would be different.

I watched the Sky build up for the first time today round at the parents' house. It was terminally dull, and hour and a half of adverts and boring interviews and tedious "analysis". The whole channel seems to be repeat after repeat as if they don't really know how to fill a full schedule.

I'm now back home listening to Radio Five Live and enjoying it much more. No thanks, Sky, you've not sold it to me.

Yeh i always turn it on 10mins before the race as i know i will miss or the boring pre-race hype

Agreed. Sky is far too formal. The BBC have it right or at least they did it's gone downhill this year too.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Agreed. Sky is far too formal. The BBC have it right or at least they did it's gone downhill this year too.

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Each to their own. I have completely gone off Jake Humphrey, for the reason that I think he's far too 'matey'. He was terrible during the Olympics, too — completely out of his depth compared with seasoned sports presenters like Hazel Irvine and Clare Balding. Personally, I'm glad he won't feature on the F1 coverage beyond this season.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Each to their own. I have completely gone off Jake Humphrey, for the reason that I think he's far too 'matey'. He was terrible during the Olympics, too — completely out of his depth compared with seasoned sports presenters like Hazel Irvine and Clare Balding. Personally, I'm glad he won't feature on the F1 coverage beyond this season.

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Exactly my feeling too plus the fact he never puts that damn ipad down!

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Originally Posted by henners88

Jake will be a major loss. He's a great presenter and provides a very inviting experience to the viewer IMO.

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Maybe to others, but not to this one.

Jake is still head and shoulders above Simon Lazenby, but I agree that his style has become a bit "Hammond" - too eager to please, and too desperate to appear like everybody's mate.

I'm increasingly disappointed with Sky's pre-race coverage as it's riddled with filler, but when it counts - during the race - I still think they have the edge on the BBC, and their interactive options are the icing on the cake. Post-race they totally kick bottom for Ted's notebook alone.

It's very close, but Sky just about pip the Beeb for me. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Jake is still head and shoulders above Simon Lazenby, but I agree that his style has become a bit "Hammond" - too eager to please, and too desperate to appear like everybody's mate.

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I think that's his USP though, most of the drivers and team members seem to love chatting to him so I'm not surprised he plays on that.

One thing I did notice is how much better Sky HD is compared to BBC HD. Picture quality is outstanding. I did think David Croft was going to hyperventilate and pass out on the first lap though.

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Originally Posted by christophulus

One thing I did notice is how much better Sky HD is compared to BBC HD. Picture quality is outstanding. I did think David Croft was going to hyperventilate and pass out on the first lap though.

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The Beeb did seem to improve their picture quality for the Olympics (odd, as they keep saying there's nothing wrong with it) but it's gone back to "normal" now. They use 1440px wide rather than 1920, and some extremely odd compression algorithms, on their HD channels. Sky just chuck money at their bandwith like it's going out of fashion, and the difference is clear.

Anyway, never mind the pictures, the Sky sound quality is something else. The BBC, for all their resources and experience, just don't seem able to produce a proper 5.1 feed.

Here is the video of Brundle acting like a complete knob.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Here is the video of Brundle acting like a complete knob.

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I must admit Brundle's gridwalks are becoming a joke. Hardly anybody seems to want to talk to him, and he's often reduced to grabbing random celebrity faces.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I must admit Brundle's gridwalks are becoming a joke. Hardly anybody seems to want to talk to him, and he's often reduced to grabbing random celebrity faces.

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He's always done that thought hasn't he. The "let's see whether this person speaks English" moment has been a feature of the grid walks since the beginning. A lot more drivers seem willing to talk on the grid now compared to say 10 years ago.

"A Marties random Person" as it used to be known.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Sky may think they can but-in because they are exclusively live, but they need to remember that the footage the BBC are recording for their highlights also has a need to be recorded live.

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More to the point I believe the BBC are live in other countries.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Very true. As annoying as that is to license payers they do transmit their commentary to other countries live.

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Those other countries pay the BBC for their broadcasts, so it actually helps us licence fee payers. :)

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Originally Posted by AndyL

He's always done that thought hasn't he. The "let's see whether this person speaks English" moment has been a feature of the grid walks since the beginning. A lot more drivers seem willing to talk on the grid now compared to say 10 years ago.

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Very true.

Car crash telly. Usually cringeworth like ending up with interviewing Geri Halliwell at what seems every Monco GP.

Respect to MB to put himself in that situation.

DC is out of his depth, like a fish out of water. He leaves me cold. The limits to his TV work is punditry. Not a natural for live TV as a whole.

Heard a bit of James Allen yesterday and he was doing his shouty thing again.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Not being a connoisseur of live presenting myself, I do enjoy the unpredictability of Coulthard in front of the camera. Approaching people on the grid as the average person would rather than a scripted professional looking to please his employers.

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You don't have to be connoissuer. Some people are good in front of a camera, some aren't.

DC just comes across as amatuerish when he's looking for someone to interview. Brundle came off as a natural. He relishes his role and willing to scrape the barrel.

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Originally Posted by wedge

You don't have to be connoissuer. Some people are good in front of a camera, some aren't.

DC just comes across as amatuerish when he's looking for someone to interview. Brundle came off as a natural. He relishes his role and willing to scrape the barrel.

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Pikeys scrape the bottom of barrels - that's nothing to aspire to.....

Jake just said that the whole 2013 season will be live on BBC?

That would be sweet if it was true????

Maybe Bernie wants the viewing figures back

Well Sky have just said they'll be "the only place to see all the races live" (their emphasis), so I guess the word "see" is the operative one.

I've got the BBC coverage in the planner for later when my pulse has calmed down a bit!

Well, all the races were live on the BBC this year — just not on the TV.

^ indeed :andrea:

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Originally Posted by henners88

I did make reference to radio above. I haven't listened on 5Live once this year as I can't stand James Allen so that doesn't really count for me. I also can't see the point in listening to a race when you can catch it a couple of hours later and see the action. Its all an anti climax listening to something so visual.

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I didn't think James Allen was too bad on 5 Live when I heard him. However, I now have great difficulty in listening to races as I can no longer visualise the circuits. Time was when I could, and it wasn't a problem. However, with the exceptions of those tracks that have gone substantially unaltered, this is no longer the case.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Not being a connoisseur of live presenting myself, I do enjoy the unpredictability of Coulthard in front of the camera. Approaching people on the grid as the average person would rather than a scripted professional looking to please his employers.

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What people don't realise about DC is that he's a very straightforward, down to earth person that that is happy talking to anyone. You could drop him into a war zone and he's just start chatting to people. A genuinly nice man.

BBC > Sky

I do not like Sky Sports. I usually can't watch races live because of my time zone, so I just download footage from the BBC or Sky. I'll tell ya, I'd rather wait a few more hours and download BBC's version of the race than get Sky. I just have more fun with the BBC trio pre-race, get plenty of analysis in a light-hearted but insightful manner, and I think their commentating during the race is great.

Sky's like watching 4 old dudes awkwardly hanging out in front of a F1 garage, and they just happen to be hosting a show. I cringe almost every time I see The Ferret (Damon Hill) open his mouth and try to conjure a sentence. Oh, and Georgie! That chick is really annoying. Is she pregnant? She kept getting fatter as the season progressed and dumber. Only a fetus can do such harm. Don't even get me started on Ant Davidson. That punk was so condescending throughout his analysis that it made me think that he was bitter no one wanted his slow butt in a F1 car.

BBC just makes Sky look ridiculous in the F1 paddock.

Seems Sky had won over someone..

Sky Sports wins "Best TV Broadcast Award for Outstanding Coverage" after debut season of Sky Sports F1HD | Sky Sports

Well after hating not being able to see all the races live, made worse by BBC Radio stations giving the result before the "replay" was shown on TV, I subscribed to Sky, (as a previous subscriber I got free Sky+ box and installation plus 12 months at half price) :) :)

Now watch the FP sessions on Sky, along with Qualy and the race unless it is live on the BBC in which case I watch on BBC and record the Sky coverage to watch later. I usually only tune in 10 mins before the race as I'm not interested in their "features", and same when watching the recording.

Find not much to dislike in either live coverage but Sky slightly better as Eddie Jordan gives a great impression of not knowing anything about F1.

Will probably cancel my subscription at the end of the 2013 season and re-new March 2014 (dependant partly on how the Ashes are looking!)

WT

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Originally Posted by acescribe

Seems Sky had won over someone..

Sky Sports wins "Best TV Broadcast Award for Outstanding Coverage" after debut season of Sky Sports F1HD | Sky Sports

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Were they watching the same coverage as me? Sky coverage was fairly good but I don't rate it compared to the BBC. I always watched the BBC when I had to choice - a much better presenter and no Georgie Thompson.

What about when Suzi Perry leads the BBC coverage......

WT

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Originally Posted by IceWizard

Were they watching the same coverage as me?

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I expect the main thing they were watching was the FOM balance sheet.