Chevy team owners trying to oust Randy Bernard

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13th July 2012, 21:54
bugeyedgomer

The owners shouldn't be complaining. They should happily be spending their resources fixing something the racing series won't
14th July 2012, 18:38
Jag_Warrior

So... there is a known defect with a series mandated part and the teams are the ones paying the price (in fines and having to buy additional parts)??? Yep, sounds about right. Why isn't Dallara being taken to task by the series for these issues?
14th July 2012, 20:19
SarahFan

RB: "the owners are wrong"

Bernard: DW12 is on course to accomplish its mission - Racer.com

Hmmm
14th July 2012, 22:39
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahFan

RB: "the owners are wrong"

Bernard: DW12 is on course to accomplish its mission - Racer.com

Hmmm

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!
15th July 2012, 02:45
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!

He does? Low TV and Attendance numbers say different.

Another telling and somewhat troubling fact is that there are no new teams being announced. All you have is Michael Shank racing that can't seem to get an engine deal :P
15th July 2012, 11:52
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!

Randy, don't give up buddy!!! “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear . A ship in port is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."( borrowed qoutes)
15th July 2012, 19:45
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Randy, don't give up buddy!!! “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear . A ship in port is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."( borrowed qoutes)

Courage?

Saving your own ass isn't courage.
15th July 2012, 20:31
FIAT1

Seams that Randy knows what the FANS want,don't give up buddy! You da man!!!
16th July 2012, 02:52
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Seams that Randy knows what the FANS want,don't give up buddy! You da man!!!

You have posted that before.

So exactly what is what the fans want?

Seeing as attendance is down at most events an TV is pretty stagnant then one has to come to some logical conclusions if RB knows what the fans want.

He is not doing what the fans want because they ain't buying

or

He doesn't know what the fans want.
16th July 2012, 03:35
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

You have posted that before.

So exactly what is what the fans want?

Seeing as attendance is down at most events an TV is pretty stagnant then one has to come to some logical conclusions if RB knows what the fans want.

He is not doing what the fans want because they ain't buying

or

He doesn't know what the fans want.

Well, you are wrong on tv and attendance, and he didn't had to do anything with old contracts including a new car. Randy did more positive work and mess clean up in most difficult environment and short time than Andrew Craig ,Chris Pook and Brian Barnhart combined. Blaming him is a cheap shot , but I'm on his side for the reason that he brings input from the fans in to his argument. I'm puzzled why all the hate and so much negativity on almost every discussion here .Peace out dude.
16th July 2012, 05:59
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Well, you are wrong on tv and attendance, and he didn't had to do anything with old contracts including a new car. Randy did more positive work and mess clean up in most difficult environment and short time than Andrew Craig ,Chris Pook and Brian Barnhart combined. Blaming him is a cheap shot , but I'm on his side for the reason that he brings input from the fans in to his argument. I'm puzzled why all the hate and so much negativity on almost every discussion here .Peace out dude.

Indy TV ratings was up marginally. The rest of the races have been pretty much stagnant.

Attendance(ticket sales) (When reported) have either been stagnant or down.

if you can rave about RB's "Knowing what the fans want" then I can point out that his success or failure has yet to be decided.
16th July 2012, 17:52
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter

I won't argue that at all. There's still a long road ahead. However, I believe that is the first time you've actually said that. The vast majority of your posts on the subject consist of dumping on him, with no positives mentioned in any way.

Hasn't been much "positive" things to talk about as of late.

You want Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy IndyCar news may I suggest The Official Site of IndyCar News, Drivers, Schedule & Shop | IndyCar.com
16th July 2012, 21:51
jimispeed

Well IMO I think he's done a pretty damn good job. Series, new car, engine manufacturers and owners, not to mention all the drama that goes with it. Kudos!! He's no dummie!!

But, until the cars have more HP the series will remain what we see now. I don't think the cars need more top speed, but they definitely need to be quicker off the corners!
19th July 2012, 03:12
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimispeed

Well IMO I think he's done a pretty damn good job. Series, new car, engine manufacturers and owners,

I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Hasn't been much "positive" things to talk about as of late.

Everything you mentioned happened a year or more ago.

As of late we have had.............?
19th July 2012, 15:09
TWR-RS-R-R-D

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

Teams being penalized for shoddy equipment the teams are being fined and losing points because when they do the post race tech inspections they are finding that some cars fuel bladders are holding up to or a little more then .5 of a gal more then the spec's that the rules state. AJ was fined for being .5 over and Pagenaud's teams was fined for being .05 over. Indycar KNOWS the defects are with the tanks and NOT the teams cheating. They admitted that the manufacturer has told them that the bladders are 'stretching' due to over pressure upon multi re-fueling's. There is no warranty being offered for this defect and in fact the series will not be replacing them until 2013 at best. So here we have a situation where even if the teams under fill a tank during race events and even as in Toronto the teams fined never ran more laps then a normal tank could hold in fuel - Indycar STILL fined them! Does indycar need the money that badly?There is nothing the teams can do about this situation as there is NO replacement bladder available to a different spec then the one that came with the car. All they can do is order the same spec and replace it more often then normal and 'hope' they are within the spec's when tested.The teams are now being required to put displacement balls in the tank and verify capacity themselves, because there is a disparity between all of the bladders.

FYI, all racing car fuel cells are manufactured slightly oversize. Because of the nature of the material used, it is impossible to make them to a specific capacity.Using displacement blocks or balls to bring a fuel cell to the legal limit is a correct and proper way to achieve that goal.This is nothing new or out of the ordinary.If you look at any fuel cell manufacturers website (ATL, Fuel Safe, etc) you will see that they sell displacement balls and blocks for this very reason.Nothing shoddy or defective about it!
20th July 2012, 17:57
bugeyedgomer

So it is new for indycar this year. I'm trying to recall when it was an issue previously.
26th July 2012, 16:30
dataman1

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

So it is new for indycar this year. I'm trying to recall when it was an issue previously.

Negative. This practice has been in open wheel racing for at least 25 years. Has it been an issue before? Yes, teams get caught exceeding the fuel tank capacity. There are procedures in place for them to check their capacity at every track. Some choose to check it frequently while others do not. Shame on the team that gets caught post race.
26th July 2012, 18:22
bugeyedgomer

More grumbling from the team owners

Quote:

Bernard, in a telephone interview with The Republic on Thursday, said he wants to add to the Izod series' current 15-race schedule but admitted team owners are concerned about the additional operating costs given the economy and challenging sponsorship environment.

Read more: IndyCar race at Phoenix International Raceway doubtful in 2013

IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given
26th July 2012, 21:14
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

More grumbling from the team owners

IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given

That sounds like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of move to me.

Gary
26th July 2012, 22:14
bugeyedgomer

it worked for over 80 years
26th July 2012, 22:28
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

it worked for over 80 years

And you honestly believe that what worked then would fly now? If so, I think you're dreamin'. What you are suggesting would be the death knell for the sport. The economies of racing are very different now. We don't see folks lining up to run additional cars. Cut off a revenue stream for the teams like that and where will you get enough cars to fill a field?

Gary
26th July 2012, 22:44
bugeyedgomer

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?
26th July 2012, 22:58
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?

Oh, that's just priceless. If there was not a full season to run, no you wouldn't get 33 entrants. The days of cheap one off teams are long since gone. The costs to field a single car at Indy have to be amortized over more than just one race. And like I said, if you cut off the revenue stream you seem to want to eliminate, several eams would fold. We barely got 33 cars this past year.

Gary
27th July 2012, 03:33
bugeyedgomer

IMS doesn't need to be bothered with the grumpy owners. All it has to do to hold a successful Indy 500 is announce the date, sell the tickets and open the gates.
If the owners want to gripe and complain, let them do it amonst themselves on their own dime. Until then, they should just shut up and show up. Or go to NASCAR, which is a lot more flexible and open to owners complaints.
27th July 2012, 04:02
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

IMS doesn't need to be bothered with the grumpy owners. All it has to do to hold a successful Indy 500 is announce the date, sell the tickets and open the gates.
If the owners want to gripe and complain, let them do it amonst themselves on their own dime. Until then, they should just shut up and show up. Or go to NASCAR, which is a lot more flexible and open to owners complaints.

Check the calendar. The year is 2012, not 1952, 1962, 1972 or even 1982. IMHO, your scenario would result in the demise of the sport and with it the 500. There is no way that race could stand on its own given the economics of open wheel racing in this time.

Gary
27th July 2012, 14:29
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

More grumbling from the team owners

IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given

Why not. as long as they bring flying dentist back and Jack Arute to tell us how good this is, I'm for it.
27th July 2012, 14:36
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?

With all do respect I just think ,nuts!
27th July 2012, 14:40
Chris R

The days of "schedule it and they will come" are over.... Everyone needs to work together.... That being said - it seems like the team owners need to get over some things.....

I would say this is also an example of the weakness of "socialized" sports - the series has set so many parameters at this point that there is not alot of flexibility to innovate either the racing equipment or the business model.....
27th July 2012, 15:27
SarahFan

I'm with the owners ...

The HG wanted control of the sport and they got it...

Now they have no F'en idea what to do with
27th July 2012, 19:29
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

That sounds like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of move to me.

Gary

I ahve to agree with bugeyedgomer on this one.

They have created an entitlement team owner class. Of course they don't want more races. Of course They don't want new aero packages. Why should day if they are doing ok with all the subsidies they receive and enough sponsorship to cover 15-16 races but not 20.

Isn't anyone curious how Sarah Fisher an keep on going all this time with little or no sponsorship?

I have said it for years. Open up the rules. I would prefer a series with 12-16 well-funded/Well-run cars than a series of 26 cars where half of the field has no chance and add nothing to the series besides a bigger grid.
27th July 2012, 19:31
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIAT1

With all do respect I just think ,nuts!

If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.
27th July 2012, 20:35
FIAT1

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.

My apologies for not seen the same tree that a wise man sees.
27th July 2012, 22:04
bugeyedgomer

if they offered even half of the money they spend keeping the owners together as prize money for the 500, you'd get tons of interest
28th July 2012, 04:56
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.

That is exactly what I was driving at. Back in the "good ol' days", a small operation could afford to put together a "JC Aga-mom-n-pop Special" one off vehicle and run just the 500. Those days are long gone.

Gary
28th July 2012, 04:59
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

if they offered even half of the money they spend keeping the owners together as prize money for the 500, you'd get tons of interest

Tons of interest? Who is going to fund these cars, when only one is going to win this massive prize?

Gary
28th July 2012, 06:12
bugeyedgomer

When was the last time there was a winner take all
28th July 2012, 06:16
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Tons of interest? Who is going to fund these cars, when only one is going to win this massive prize?

Gary

Exactly.

Bare-bones to buy one car(No Spare), Parts, Tires, Fuel, team and all of the associate sundry and miscellaneous items such as food and lodging an one off attempt at the 500 probably would coast around $750K...And that would be just to attempt to qualify. Not to have an actual competitive car. I ride buyer maybe could be persuaded to pay around $200 still leaves over 1/2 a million.
28th July 2012, 17:34
bugeyedgomer

so nobody ever spent more than they took home in the history of the Indy 500, ever?
28th July 2012, 18:15
SarahFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

That is exactly what I was driving at. Back in the "good ol' days", a small operation could afford to put together a "JC Aga-mom-n-pop Special" one off vehicle and run just the 500. Those days are long gone.

Gary

The Mercedes pushrod PenskePC#% would sit on pole and likely dominate the race today

So pretty much any chassis/engine combo from the past 25 years would have a legitimate shot at making the race and being competitive
28th July 2012, 18:53
anthonyvop

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyedgomer

so nobody ever spent more than they took home in the history of the Indy 500, ever?

No But many defray the costs by spending it over the course of the season. They also attract more potential sponsors that way. Does that don't cover their expenses tend to not return

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