Who thinks Schumacher finally should retire?

I'm sorry, but I've apparently missed all the races Nico has won in the MERC over the past three seasons... I stand by what I said, in a car with the performance advantage schummi enjoyed whail at Ferrari and Benetton, like the RB the past two seasons, he'd have added well to his career win tally. The merc simply was not a contending car the past two seasons. I believe it IS very competetive this year and no, I don't believe he should pack it in. I say he's still better than 50% of the drivers on the grid many of them are half his age. HE said he was ok supporting NICO and making the car better. Teams rarely have truly equal cars and support for their drivers, and Merc is no exception.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

If car#7 has problems in almost every race, it doesn't matter how competitive it is pacewise. Merc are doing fine with Nico, but what is happening to Michael is a disgrace, unbelievable.

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I think they will probably sort that. It is bad what is happening alright but tis nothing that didn't happen to some of Schuey's teammates in his Ferrari era. Still, I'm sure that Merc will sort it.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I think they will probably sort that. It is bad what is happening alright but tis nothing that didn't happen to some of Schuey's teammates in his Ferrari era. Still, I'm sure that Merc will sort it.

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I can't remember such bad series for a teammate of Michael, honestly. Rubens and Eddie were simply never that good.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I can't remember such bad series for a teammate of Michael, honestly. Rubens and Eddie were simply never that good.

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Only time Eddie was quick was running to the bank, or clambering out the window of some fillie's gaff before the old man got upstairs!

Eddie amused me :) I still remember his odd wins in 1999, he almost won the WDC...

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Eddie amused me :) I still remember his odd wins in 1999, he almost won the WDC...

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That he didn't, even with Salo and the Shoe playing rear gunner for him, show's just how poor he really was. One of life's natural No. 2's is Ediie.

I think that he was OK, not a great driver, but not a terrible one either. And he was surely annoying to his rivals ;)

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I think that he was OK, not a great driver, but not a terrible one either. And he was surely annoying to his rivals ;)

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He was always one of those 'great on a good day', but never seemed to manage to have a good day co-incide with a race!

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

He was always one of those 'great on a good day', but never seemed to manage to have a good day co-incide with a race!

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Hahahahah, thank you sir, you made my day! It is true, however, that from what I remember McLaren were quite perplexed about how this guy could fight them for the WDC... when Michael broke his leg, they expected to finish 1-2 in the championship. Instead they barely beat Irvive and Frentzen!

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Hahahahah, thank you sir, you made my day! It is true, however, that from what I remember McLaren were quite perplexed about how this guy could fight them for the WDC... when Michael broke his leg, they expected to finish 1-2 in the championship. Instead they barely beat Irvive and Frentzen!

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Yes, but I'll always remember the 1999 championship as the Championship nobody wanted to win. All the contenders seemed to be making all the necessary mistakes required just at the right moment to make sure they didn't wrap it up.

It was a missed opportunity for MS, much like 97 and 98. Frightening really if you think about it, had luck favored him a little more those years we could be calling him a 10 time WDC and even then there would still be idiots claiming that he was never a great driver and it was all down to the car. Go figure!

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Yes, but I'll always remember the 1999 championship as the Championship nobody wanted to win. All the contenders seemed to be making all the necessary mistakes required just at the right moment to make sure they didn't wrap it up.

It was a missed opportunity for MS, much like 97 and 98. Frightening really if you think about it, had luck favored him a little more those years we could be calling him a 10 time WDC and even then there would still be idiots claiming that he was never a great driver and it was all down to the car. Go figure!

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Yep I have always looked at those years and wondered the same, I think along with senna, he is up there to have had the best of combination of what a competitive racing driver should have to be successful, still in awe of the fact that he got the best qualifying time in Monaco at 43 in such a competitive season.

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MS to win canada :up:

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I don't think that he is currently the best driver in F1, but I do think that Mercedes are highly unprofessional when preparing his car, to the point that conspiracy theories almost look credible.

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No, they don't look credible.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

If car#7 has problems in almost every race, it doesn't matter how competitive it is pacewise. Merc are doing fine with Nico, but what is happening to Michael is a disgrace, unbelievable.

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That happened at Ferrari with Schumi's teammates. Remember what happened with Rubens in 2002? Even worse than what MS has had. Sometimes things just don't work out, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Sometimes things just don't work out, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

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Pretty much so. It is also worth reminding 2001, when Häkkinen had a horrible start into the season. After the first seven races he merely had 4 points, while Coulthard had 40! This is what unluck can do to a driver.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Yes, but I'll always remember the 1999 championship as the Championship nobody wanted to win. All the contenders seemed to be making all the necessary mistakes required just at the right moment to make sure they didn't wrap it up.

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True. Hakkinen retired from the lead at least four times, maybe more (Oz, Imola, Germany and Monza I remember quite well).

Ah, I think that Michael was easily the best that year, in the car in which Barrichello failed to win the race, he dominated easily. Mika was good, however, very good, on his day invincible.

Hakkinen only scored 7 points in the first 7 races or something in 2001, or something like that, until he won at Silverstone then had a better second half season, but Coulthard looked more consistant that season. And Michael I think was best.

Still each to there own.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Yeah 2001 was a year McLaren threw the title away through unreliability at the start but Mika still came away looking like the best driver that year IMO.

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I suspect you might be confusing 2000 and 2001.

Michael's done alright this year, no?

Australia: Qualifies 4th, Gearbox Failure in race while running 3rd
Malaysia: Qualifies 3rd, close to pole. Problems in race limit him to 10th, but utterly annihilated (sp?) Rosberg
China: Well of Rosberg's pace, but starts on front row and runs 2nd till mechanical failure at 1st stop.
Bahrain: Sent to back of grid, finishes 10th. Pace a bit off Rosberg in quali, but more equal in race (as in 2011)
Spain: Qualifies a little off Rosberg, crashed in race. I didn't see, but heard he was going FAST at the time.
Monaco: On pole. Would have won. Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Just a differing opinion Jens. :)

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Hakkinen the best driver in 2001? The year when he finished 5th in the championship?

The year when seven out of the eight times that the McLaren drivers both finished a race, Coulthard placed higher?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Yeah 2001 was a year McLaren threw the title away through unreliability at the start but Mika still came away looking like the best driver that year IMO.

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You must be thinking of 2000.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Just a differing opinion Jens. :)

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No, you must be confusing the years, otherwise I fear for your sanity and deeply. DC kept destroying Mika that year in both quali and in races, after MH lost motivation after the car failure at Melbourne. Throughout the year he only had 2 good races, which he actually both won, but most of the time he was nowhere.

Merc fails Michael another time... pathetic.

Would it have made much difference if he had finished. Outclasses by his team mate again

Don't worry Knock On. He will find something to blame :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Would it have made much difference if he had finished. Outclasses by his team mate again

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Are you trolling again?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I quite agree. It was unfortunate to see him retire with such a silly failure, but the truth is Nico completely outperformed him once again IMO. He has moments of brilliance, moments of bad luck and moments in the wilderness.

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1) In qualifying Mercedes doesn't tell him that he is running out of time and therefor he cannot do a fast lap
2) In race 1 second behind Nico and being held up, Mercedes calls him to pit - he gets stuck behind another load of drivers (di Resta) and is unable to pass, as was the case for quite a few drivers yesterday actually. So in reality he was screwed over by bad choices by the pitlane in both quali and in the race.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Life's a real b!tch sometimes and I can sympathise with Michael. It can't be easy for him. He may have shown a vast improvement this season, but it really should have come alot sooner IMO. Yesterday was full of team blunders and poor luck, but he's had his fair share of brain fades of late with have cost him dearly. His crash with Senna in Spain was a prime example of getting it completely wrong and costing himself and the team valuable points. I hope to see him improve further because it is good for the sport, but the truth of the matter is, he is no longer as good as he was and able to realistically challenge the younger guys in the top teams. I hope he steps away with dignity at the end of the season and allows a driver with long term potential to build himself within the team and bring Merc the results they are very capable of achieving.

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Other than the very obvious idiotic move on Senna, what other brain fades has he had this year?
Perhaps Shanghai where his tyre fell off?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Are you trolling again?

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Was he or was he not outclassed by Nico?

Make excuses all you want but if this was Kimi you would call him a Car breaker. When the car isn't breaking then he's bumping and if not, manages to finish with a single point. Is that all the car's capable of?

You're getting more like ioan every day. Cry me a river :p

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Was he or was he not outclassed by Nico?

Make excuses all you want but if this was Kimi you would call him a Car breaker. When the car isn't breaking then he's bumping and if not, manages to finish with a single point. Is that all the car's capable of?

You're getting more like ioan every day. Cry me a river :p

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Are you menstruating?

Find a post where I have ever called Kimi a car-breaker or hell, even find a post where I have attacked him with venom. Funnily enough you won't find one because he is among my very favourite drivers.

But really, your "arguments" are on the level of a justin bieber fanboy here, I expected somewhat more from you.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I wouldn't have said it was a brain fade with his tyre falling off in China but be my guest on that one. His attempted block on Hamilton during practise for the Spanish GP springs to mind, although it wasn't during a race.

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The tyre falling off thing was an obvious joke. The incident at Spain `with Lewis was not a brain-fade, but just a stupid move which doesn't in any way make his season better or worse quality wise. Bieber did worse to Senna at Canada. The reality is that other than the incident with Senna, he hasn't really done anything wrong this year.

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That incident alone was lucky not to attract a ban for the race or at least being sent to the back of the grid. When you consider the penalty Lewis recieved for not having enough fuel, a reprimand for taking a short cut and attempting to stop a competitor on the final chicane is rather inconsistant IMO.

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The penalty for Lewis was a joke.

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To be honest Michael has lost so many front wings over the past 2 and a half season's due to mistakes its difficult to filter them out between seasons. Its probably as difficult as finding an English Schumacher supporter at Silverstone. :D

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So basically when you said he has had many brain-fades as of late, you really had one example to show and the rest come from 1 year ago which have little to do with the current situation?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Are you menstruating?

Find a post where I have ever called Kimi a car-breaker or hell, even find a post where I have attacked him with venom. Funnily enough you won't find one because he is among my very favourite drivers.

But really, your "arguments" are on the level of a justin bieber fanboy here, I expected somewhat more from you.

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This kind of post is pretty low-class. You have been warned for insults in the past and basically this is another one, which warrants a warning...

Also Knock-on and whoever discusses with Garry Walker should avoid getting personal as well. You know that after that the quality of discussion goes off the rails.

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Originally Posted by jens

This kind of post is pretty low-class. You have been warned for insults in the past and basically this is another one, which warrants a warning...

Also Knock-on and whoever discusses with Garry Walker should avoid getting personal as well. You know that after that the quality of discussion goes completely off the rails.

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Just out of curiosity, did you by any chance see the post to which I replied?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Just out of curiosity, did you by any chance see the post to which I replied?

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Yes, I did. And this is why I mentioned others in my reply as well. :)

Garry, you predicted Michael would thrash Nico when his comeback was anounced. Being wrong seems to be a difficult pill for you to swallow. What Michael is going through - call it mistakes, team error, karma, whatever - aren't making a huge difference. As Knock-on pointed out, when he finished a race - he comes in 10th and gets one point. At that rate, even if he had a repeat of the increadible good fortune reliability wise he had at Ferrari, that would still leave him with 7 races X 1 point = 7 points. It brings him up above the Torro's into 16th in the standings. Compare that with Nico (the guy that was supposed to get thrashed) with 67 points, in 5th overall.


I think Nico enjoys having Michael as a teammate just about as much as Alonso enjoys having Massa.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm not looking to get personal here either so I'll keep my opinions on this one and take the stage door to the left lol. :)

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I am not sure what's the problem, there has been no personal attacks from me here, not at least against you.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

Garry, you predicted Michael would thrash Nico when his comeback was anounced. Being wrong seems to be a difficult pill for you to swallow. What Michael is going through - call it mistakes, team error, karma, whatever - aren't making a huge difference. As Knock-on pointed out, when he finished a race - he comes in 10th and gets one point. At that rate, even if he had a repeat of the increadible good fortune reliability wise he had at Ferrari, that would still leave him with 7 races X 1 point = 7 points. It brings him up above the Torro's into 16th in the standings. Compare that with Nico (the guy that was supposed to get thrashed) with 67 points, in 5th overall.


I think Nico enjoys having Michael as a teammate just about as much as Alonso enjoys having Massa.

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Hard to analyze it like that. Because even in those races, where Schumacher finished 10th, he was compromised (after the start he was at the back in Malaysia and Bahrain). Overall I do think Rosberg has the upper hand, but Schumacher is really close. Far from the Massa case, to be frank.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

Garry, you predicted Michael would thrash Nico when his comeback was anounced.

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Absolutely. Little did I predict MS would suck so much for the next 1,5 years. Thankfully, those 1,5 years have passed.

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Being wrong seems to be a difficult pill for you to swallow.

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Absolutely, I hate being wrong, but I am man enough to admit to my mistakes. As I have proven right here.

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What Michael is going through - call it mistakes, team error, karma, whatever - aren't making a huge difference. As Knock-on pointed out, when he finished a race - he comes in 10th and gets one point.

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By any chance do you know how those 10th places came? One came after he had qualified 3rd and was rammed out in the 2nd corner by Grosjean, after what he ended the 1st lap in 16th place. In the very same race, Nico Rosberg finished 30 seconds behind MS, despite having no such problems and despite being in 6th place after lap 1.
At Bahrain, he had a car problem in qualifying and due to that his race was pretty much ruined from that point on, in fact, to make things worse his gearbox was changed as well, so he started from pos.22. Quite a good race by him actually.

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At that rate, even if he had a repeat of the increadible good fortune reliability wise he had at Ferrari, that would still leave him with 7 races X 1 point = 7 points. It brings him up above the Torro's into 16th in the standings. Compare that with Nico (the guy that was supposed to get thrashed) with 67 points, in 5th overall.

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This really isn't a very strong analysis.

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I think Nico enjoys having Michael as a teammate just about as much as Alonso enjoys having Massa.

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I think it is far from that

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Absolutely. Little did I predict MS would suck so much for the next 1,5 years. Thankfully, those 1,5 years have passed.

Absolutely, I hate being wrong, but I am man enough to admit to my mistakes. As I have proven right here.

By any chance do you know how those 10th places came? One came after he had qualified 3rd and was rammed out in the 2nd corner by Grosjean, after what he ended the 1st lap in 16th place. In the very same race, Nico Rosberg finished 30 seconds behind MS, despite having no such problems and despite being in 6th place after lap 1.
At Bahrain, he had a car problem in qualifying and due to that his race was pretty much ruined from that point on, in fact, to make things worse his gearbox was changed as well, so he started from pos.22. Quite a good race by him actually.

This really isn't a very strong analysis.


I think it is far from that

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As far as the analysis - lets wait til later in the season. Maybe I'll have to admit my mistake, as you have done above.

Teammates - If you were an F1 driver, what would put a bigger smile on your face, thrashing Massa or Schumacher.

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Originally Posted by jens

This kind of post is pretty low-class. You have been warned for insults in the past and basically this is another one, which warrants a warning...

Also Knock-on and whoever discusses with Garry Walker should avoid getting personal as well. You know that after that the quality of discussion goes off the rails.

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I have no problem with Gazza's language, tone or content. I appreciate that these days the forum has become almost clinical in it's conversation but IMHO that is to it's detriment.

Sometimes I miss the old days when we could point out when people are defending the indefensible without having to use sanitised language. Hell, we could even use bad language, bad grammer or god forbid, bad spelling.

I suppose us Dinosaurs are approaching extinction and I say bring it fecking on...

BTW Garry, I like post #122 but give up on Chop Chop. He's well done. ;)

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

Teammates - If you were an F1 driver, what would put a bigger smile on your face, thrashing Massa or Schumacher.

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This season, I'd say beating Massa. It wouldn't give me much satisfaction beating a guy whose car doesn't even work.

I frankly see some pretty stupid reasoning on how people are blaming him for his run this season, now this is not really what was definitely going to happen, but at least it gives us a look at the best case scenario.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...g-title-chase/

Even in Canada during qualifying he was faster then rosberg in q1 and q2, and was looking pretty strong for the race, because of his teams mistake he ended up 9th. He has had a measure for Rosberg for most of this season pace wise, and I don't see any reason for him deserving any thrashing from anyone.

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