Long Beach Grand Prix Race Thread

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Look at a replay, Dario squeezed him to the right. There were other similar passes today withou incident.

There is no way we will ever completely eliminate launching, but the bumpers and the sidepods certainly enabled a lot of side by side racing on a narrow course. There was one four car scramble involving Helio, Briscoe and two others that in the past would have resulted in four cars on the hook. As it played out today all four kept on going. The drivers know this and are now not afraid to push a bit harder.

RE: the Marco Rahal incident, Marco is an idiot if he thought he could make that next corner with as much speed as he was carrying. Dixon and Rahal were both on the brakes and Marco was trying a bonsai move. And true to form, just like his dad, he blames the other guy.

Gary

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Dario held his line, which is his right going in to 1 as the leader. I'm sure he was surprised to see Newgarden along side since 10 seconds earlier he fell in line behind him.

Marco can be an idiot but who's to say he couldn't pull an incredible pass? Rahal blocking is what caused the crash in first place.

Dario completely missed the apex, he overshot the corner worse than Newgarden and used Newgardens car as the save, Newgarden had the "racing" line as he was able to outbreak Dario, but thanks to the rear bumpers, Dario clipped him and sent him in the wall, with the old car, Dario would've most likely cut Newgardens rear tire. Dario also should've known this is a young kid who was on the front row for the first time and had to have known he was gonna push to get some air time

Great race and once again, awesome coverage by the NBC crew. Great looking and great audio, especially the in-car.

When I saw what Newgarden did, his fault or not, I couldn't help but think of a young Paul Tracy. I like the little shove-over that Dixon gave Franchitti. Tsk-tsk on Rahal although fat chance of Andretti ever making that corner. Oh Sato! I dunno... I hate these late race penalties and the one on RHR is tough to take but that's racing??? Go Hinchcliffe!

My first live race to attend and watch an IndyCar since forever. Glad to see one series and it looks like although I've missed a lot, this series is heading to the right track. Everyone in one roof, just made it more fun to watch a real racing.

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Originally Posted by Phoenixent

You had to be there to hear the different engines. Chevy(Ilmor) sound like it is smooth and high pitch. The Lotus(Judd) sound similar to the Chevy but is why down on the pitch and not as smooth. But the shock to me was the Honda as it sounded like the old Offy-turbo mid 70's low and throaty but kicks in hard when it does come on. Should be interesting for the Honda drivers if they don't change it by Indy as the Offy with a large turbo were a hand full when the turbo kicked in....

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You must have good ears because they sound the same to me! I posted a YouTube link of my video clips and about 3/4 through I have footage of them coming down the main straight and I honestly cannot tell the difference. Of course, I'm also a tone deaf singer. =)

Good news is the ratings were up 21% from last year. Bad news is that it is still dismal at a .34 overnight. Pressdog has some more detailed numbers breakdown. Bad news that they couldn't even pull a 1.0 in the host city. (LA overnight .80)

pressdog.com: Long Beach Overnight TV Ratings up 21% from Last Year

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Originally Posted by Cart750hp

My first live race to attend and watch an IndyCar since forever. Glad to see one series and it looks like although I've missed a lot, this series is heading to the right track. Everyone in one roof, just made it more fun to watch a real racing.

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Hey Cart750, good to see you around. I haven't seen you here in a long while.

INDYCAR: Rahal Receives 6-Race Probation For Move On Andretti

[quote="DBell"]INDYCAR: Rahal Receives 6-Race Probation For Move On Andretti[/QUOT


I'm sure he wont be able to sleep now. Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

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Originally Posted by DBell

INDYCAR: Rahal Receives 6-Race Probation For Move On Andretti[/QUOT


I'm sure he wont be able to sleep now. Ridiculous.

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At least it was addressed and not forgotten about. I would have rather them add a 10 grid spot penalty to the next race along with the probation, but at least it wasn't swept under the rug.

I think it seems appropriate - the real test is if Barfield is consistent and also what he does if Rahal screws up again while on probation....

I am not sure what else you can do short of sitting the driver out for a race and I do not think the series is in a place it can afford to do that right yet and I do not think that would be the right penalty at this time.... Same goes for a $$ fine...

Personally, I think both drivers need a good talking to behind closed doors from someone they both respect and/or fear to tell them a little about themselves... and I don't think any of us need to know who said what.... A little rivalry would be a good thing but these two need to be a little better before their rivalry has any real substance......

And Dario's move in turn one is unaddressed?? I still think there was avoidable contact there as well. We saw similar pass attempts in turn one later in the race without incident.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

And Dario's move in turn one is unaddressed?? I still think there was avoidable contact there as well. We saw similar pass attempts in turn one later in the race without incident.

Gary

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Agree!!!

Double agree. Dario took out Josef in my eyes. (And Dario proved throughout the race that he was very passable.)

Great fan footage showing Dario pushing Josef into the wall, intentionally or not. Please note how the 3rd and 4th cars through held a very tight line through the corner. Franchchitti Newgarden Trun 1 TGPLB Lap 1 Hit. - YouTube.

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Originally Posted by champcarray

Great fan footage showing Dario pushing Josef into the wall, intentionally or not. Please note how the 3rd and 4th cars through held a very tight line through the corner. Franchchitti Newgarden Trun 1 TGPLB Lap 1 Hit. - YouTube.

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You can't get away with nothing these days! "We" are Big Brother! Gadzooks!

I don't want to be looking at a post race summary like I'm looking at the penalty sheet of a bench clearing brawl in the NHL playoffs. Barfield went as far as I care for any judge in this sport to go. If he starts making calls on racing incidents such as Franchitti\Newgarden then I'll probably start tuning out. You can't call a foul on a guy being passed on the outside for not being able to hold his line to the inside -- in a corner like that -- at a speed like that. And I'm not making excuses for Franchitti, especially since that incident with Sato last year.

I'd rather cry to the Gods, whine and moan to friends, family and forum members about my heroes being hard done by rather than see any more rulings! And I sure as hell don't want to see the finishing order changed. Dock them points, fine them or grid penalties.

The only call I am absolutely comfortable with Barfield making was on Rahal (and I like Rahal)... but probation? Gimme a break. Too easy... IMO.

Rahal deserved it...

Good broadcast, but I think the Rahal penalty is spot on, even if I too think Marco was heading for a big shunt since he was WAAY late on the brakes....

AS for the kid trying Dario on the outside at lap one, I take the view the booth did...that the kid showed some guts, but that was a really scary idea to try that type of pass on lap one with sort of luke warm rubber. Dario isn't always the cleanest guy out there, but on this one, I don't hold him at fault. The kid rolled the dice, and Dario had to be somewhere and Josef didn't give him any track to work with. An outside pass on that corner on lap one? C' mon people, you dump on Paul Tracy for trying that stuff, and then want to bury Dario for it and give the kid a pass??

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Good broadcast, but I think the Rahal penalty is spot on, even if I too think Marco was heading for a big shunt since he was WAAY late on the brakes....

AS for the kid trying Dario on the outside at lap one, I take the view the booth did...that the kid showed some guts, but that was a really scary idea to try that type of pass on lap one with sort of luke warm rubber. Dario isn't always the cleanest guy out there, but on this one, I don't hold him at fault. The kid rolled the dice, and Dario had to be somewhere and Josef didn't give him any track to work with. An outside pass on that corner on lap one? C' mon people, you dump on Paul Tracy for trying that stuff, and then want to bury Dario for it and give the kid a pass??

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I do see your point , but if you take someone out by hitting other car in rear wheel you have lost a corner way before and Dario is very good at that(Will Power Toronto, no penalty). Josef I think will be next great American ace in Indycar and I hope he doesn't stop racing hard and comes to be like Paul Tracy.Great stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

The kid rolled the dice, and Dario had to be somewhere and Josef didn't give him any track to work with. An outside pass on that corner on lap one?

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There were similar attempts at the same sort of pass in the same spot latter in the race without incident. Lap one, lap thirty five, what difference does it make? Dario struggled all day and was struggling into that first corner. Josef saw the opportunity and pounced. Then Dario went way wide right and took him out. I am a big fan of Dario, but I think this one is clearly on him.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

There were similar attempts at the same sort of pass in the same spot latter in the race without incident. Lap one, lap thirty five, what difference does it make? Dario struggled all day and was struggling into that first corner. Josef saw the opportunity and pounced. Then Dario went way wide right and took him out. I am a big fan of Dario, but I think this one is clearly on him.

Gary

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While I generally agree with you on this one I have to say Barfield made the right call.

At the time he had no clear video evidence of Dario actually hitting JN. You can't make what can be a race altering decision based on an assumption. Good Call.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Sorry, there are 20 video screens in Race Control. There is a feed from each camera used for the TV broadcast as well as others. Each feed is DVR ed with the ability to play back on demand by RC. All feeds are recorded all the time whether the TV broadcast is showing that particular camera at the time or not. If you can see it at home RC can see it and much more.

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And none of them had definitive evidence of contact.....none!

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

And none of them had definitive evidence of contact.....none!

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My memory maybe lyin' to me, but didn't we see the rear of Josef's car twitch to the right from contact? I guess the reality is that all we saw was the result and not the actual contact, so in that light you might be right, actual contact was not seen. But EVIDENCE of contact was seen. And that may be why the decision was made to not call it.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

My memory maybe lyin' to me, but didn't we see the rear of Josef's car twitch to the right from contact? I guess the reality is that all we saw was the result and not the actual contact, so in that light you might be right, actual contact was not seen. But EVIDENCE of contact was seen. And that may be why the decision was made to not call it.

Gary

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Did Dario hit JN? probably!

Is there any 100% proof? Unless Dario was to confess over the radio then No.

No proof. no foul!

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Did Dario hit JN? probably!

Is there any 100% proof? Unless Dario was to confess over the radio then No.

No proof. no foul!

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Yes, I see your point.

Gary

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Did Dario hit JN? probably!

Is there any 100% proof? Unless Dario was to confess over the radio then No.

No proof. no foul!

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Contact or no contact -- no penalty. Did Dario initiate the pass -- no. Did Dario blatantly or maliciously run Newgarden out of room -- no judgement could possibly made on that. It can't be judged any other way than being a racing incident. Do you folks want penalties called every time these guys bump? If so than I want penalties called even when contact is made but no race is spoiled or positions lost. I want a penalty box! That's the racing you want? Let's hire Chris Kneifel as an assistant to Barfield because these guys will be busy.

That sounds harsher than I meant it to be but the point I'm trying to convey is there.

From Pagenaud's airbox camera it looked like Dario didn't hit that apex as close as Pagenaud and everyone else did. Everyone's left front tire was all over the candy cane stripes. It looked like the edge of Dario's left front tire just touched the stripes on the edge instead of going over the stripes.

On the other hand, Dario was on the inside and maybe couldn't have held a tighter apex through that turn.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

And none of them had definitive evidence of contact.....none!

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They said they only looked at 2 angles of the contact.

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Chief steward Beaux Barfield said his race stewards, including former drivers Arie Luyendyk and Johnny Unser, told him the two camera angles available to them were “inconclusive.”

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The video angle I saw in the highlights on YouTube clearly, let me repeat that, clearly show Dario hit Newgarden.

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Originally Posted by Nem14

They said they only looked at 2 angles of the contact.

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Only 2 available at that time from the NBC feed.

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Originally Posted by Nem14

The video angle I saw in the highlights on YouTube clearly, let me repeat that, clearly show Dario hit Newgarden.

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I have seen many different angles on YouTube as well and have yet see one that shows Dario "Clearly" hitting JN. If you would be so kind as to post the link to that video it would be most appreciated.

Newgarden's left rear wheel guard was knocked off. However, I'm not sure if the right one breaking off at the tire barrier had anything to do with it. From what I've seen, it's one long plane/plank connecting both rear wheel guards.

View from Pagenaud's airbox begins around 1:43 in the following YouTube clip:
Veja a largada da etapa de Long Beach - YouTube

Upon watching again, I think the impact of the right rear guard with the tire barrier also ripped off the left rear guard.

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Originally Posted by Civic

View from Pagenaud's airbox begins around 1:43 in the following YouTube clip:
Veja a largada da etapa de Long Beach - YouTube

Upon watching again, I think the impact of the right rear guard with the tire barrier also ripped off the left rear guard.

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I think it is clear there is contact at 2:07-2:08 in this video as you can see the rear of Josef's car suddenly twitch to the right. Avoidable? I don't know since it looks like Josef really pinched Dario down on the apex, which may have been a contributing factor.

Thanks for the video!

Gary

One thing I did notice in this race is the cars seemed to get a nice tow off of one another down the front straight.

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Originally Posted by Civic

View from Pagenaud's airbox begins around 1:43 in the following YouTube clip:
Veja a largada da etapa de Long Beach - YouTube

Upon watching again, I think the impact of the right rear guard with the tire barrier also ripped off the left rear guard.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

I think it is clear there is contact at 2:07-2:08 in this video as you can see the rear of Josef's car suddenly twitch to the right. Avoidable? I don't know since it looks like Josef really pinched Dario down on the apex, which may have been a contributing factor.

Thanks for the video!

Gary

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Sorry guys.

I see JN car moving but the Video DOES NOT CLEARLY SHOW ANY CONTACT. The Overhead shot is too far and Pags in-car the alleged hit is blocked.

I am not a Dario fan and I believe he probably did hit JN but there is no Clear proof he did. So you cannot penalize a driver for an incident that you can't prove actually happened.

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Originally Posted by DBell

Good news is the ratings were up 21% from last year. Bad news is that it is still dismal at a .34 overnight. Pressdog has some more detailed numbers breakdown. Bad news that they couldn't even pull a 1.0 in the host city. (LA overnight .80)

pressdog.com: Long Beach Overnight TV Ratings up 21% from Last Year





Hey Cart750, good to see you around. I haven't seen you here in a long while.

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Hey DBell, it's really been awhile. But good to see everyone here. I'll drop by again when I get a chance.

Re. Good news is the ratings were up 21% from last year. Bad news is that it is still dismal at a .34 overnight. Pressdog has some more detailed numbers breakdown. Bad news that they couldn't even pull a 1.0 in the host city. (LA overnight .80)


It is going to be a long road to higher television ratings when the show is on channel 1256.

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

Re. Good news is the ratings were up 21% from last year. Bad news is that it is still dismal at a .34 overnight. Pressdog has some more detailed numbers breakdown. Bad news that they couldn't even pull a 1.0 in the host city. (LA overnight .80)


It is going to be a long road to higher television ratings when the show is on channel 1256.

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And with little or no on-line presence.