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I agree. Adrian Newey still designs the Red Bull cars and Ferrari's technical line-up isn't massively better than in the previous couple of years. Logically, they are not suddenly going to see the light if they haven't in the past. I expect Red Bull to be fastest with Mclaren improving as the season goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Well, I actually think tha is perfectly normal for a brand new car to have issues. It would be surpring if it did not.
What I perceive instead troublesome is seeing a RB wich is an upgrade from last year car suffering so many failures. If anything their car is supposed to be testing without any problems. Not Ferrari. As Newey said himeself this car was designed around the exaust system. Well that's now gone. So their "new" car is not going to be a second faster than everyone else like last year.
As far as McLAren is concerned, I am not the only wondering if their decision to be the only team in not changing their nose is in fact a good decision. I predict McLaren would be changing their nose either in Australia or soon after.
Also I see not much mention about Mercedes. I wonder if they have a surprise they want to show the competition as late as possible. Renault and Kimi could also surprise a lot of people as well.
Of course if they would be the only ones who got it right then they would have all the reasons to be very proud of it and with reason. But for some reason, I don't know, it does not seem right. They are taking a big chance with their "originality". Assuming they got it wrong, I wonder how long would take them to replace it. It should not take long to see that actually.
RBR problems are what expected for testing but Alonso's assessment that Ferrari understand "20%" of their car is not a nice figure and is very worrying. It is a hindrance that compromises the WDC fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
We've seen McLaren in the past scratching their heads with rear downforce: data correlation, data gathering, trying to understand the data and come up with the correct solutions. This leaves you falling behind because rivals will be focusing more on performance whilst you're stuck on square 1.
Though I made a brutal assessment there is still hope. McLaren drivers will take points off each other; if Webber can step up and make a good fight with Vettel again then all Alonso have to do is not replicate 2010 and over drive the car - but then what of Massa....Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Massa has lost it and won't be a title contender this year or ever.
I'm going to Barcelona on Tuesday for the first day of the second test. I can't wait to hear F1 engines roar in anger again.
Along with Autosport live commentary, I like to view this coverage for analyzing stints (t&d) during the practice live, and it is left up until the next session for analysis, trollers, and even fanbois. This is what the last test ended up looking like, and will change tomorrow.
Timing: 10 february, friday. Circuit of Jerez, Spain.
It accounts for every minute so don’t be surprised if it seems like they are not counting the stints correctly.
Bold words! You don't know that bro. :monkeedanQuote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Phew.... Top 3 will be McLaren, Ferrari and Adrian Newey :)
Ferrari may be slightly ahead of where I thought they would be. Possibly they will be the ones on the pace come the first race.
Macca's are in a better state than last year but don't have that element of raw speed it seems. This is becoming a bit of a habit with them starting the season behind the curve and by the time they get up to speed, the championship's won. I just hope they're a bit more on it from the start this year.
As for Red Bull, I'm not too sure I agree with Wedge that they are sandbagging. I think that rather than flexing wings, they were employing a type of active suspension thet FI tried to emulate. Has the mockers now been put on this by the FIA? If so, they might be back on a level playing field and struggling to regain the intuitive.
Well stated Knockie! Alonso just put in a decent 10 lap stint. It's sometimes hard to judge his times becaus he always is trying to setup s1 when their is a little traffic! Plus Lotus hasn't run a lap in about an hour and fifteen minutes.
Alonso stint :
1:24.100 (15)
1:24.894 (16)
1:25.257 (17)
1:25.209 (18)
1:25.983 (19)
1:27.744 (20)
1:25.444 (21)
1:25.295 (22)
1:27.568 (23)
Lotus have given up for the day, they were using their second chassis, but found a problem and sent it back to Enstone. Presumabley they are bringing in the 1st chassis now so they can run the rest of the week still
Hamilton, and Riccardo were the only ones near the top to set best time before lunch on softs, or so autosport says.
Only first day of testing at Barcelona, but we have got major news already. Lotus has a fundamental chassis issue and has withdrawn from the whole Barcelona testing this week! :eek:
Reminds me a bit of Williams from 2011, when they were shining in testing, but before the first race realized they had to fix a major design flaw - floor was too low, they needed to rise it, but as a result became slow...
And a deja vu to Lotus from 2011 - they were shining at the first tests before losing Kubica, now they were shining before losing chassis...
More sandbags in the RB camp than Boscastle in the wet season.......Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Schumacher had a better stint than that. So don't count out Mercedes yet :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
Oh well. Better keep the ice cream freezer well stocked...........!Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Just goes to show that what happens in the tunnel does not fully recreate what happens on the track.
Seriously I wouldn’t count them out. We know the least about them of all the teams. Ferrari didn't do anything except continue on with a regimented test. As for what I do know. Mercedes is in the same boat only earlier along with their data gathering. Today they had at least two issues, but it is to be expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
1) They missed time early because of a hydraulic leak,
2) I don't think that burned bodywork is part of the livery
http://i.imgur.com/Uofqb.jpg
Excuse me for saying Ferrari had a decent stint :p :
If your interpretation is correct then someone needs to adjust their sand bags, because Red Bull have ended up faster than McLaren in every day of testing so far! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Sebs 122.8 was on soft compound Autosport first said it was on mediums.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
One question - who will be driving on Thursday and Friday? I haven't found it anywhere, although it mustn't be really that hard to find.
Vettel gets the best of Hamilton in the "dueling" race simulations:
Timing: 22 february, wednesday. Catalunya, Spain.
It looks like Alonso is not completely happy with car. On the positive side the car is finally able to bring the tiers to temperature very quickly. And this was a major issue in the past years. For the bad news, Alonso complains about a certain lack of grip of the car when exiting corners. Curiously enough Vettel also was mentioning the same issue with his car.
Just look at every stint how quickly the tires fall off as suggested by discernibly slower lap times during the stints duration, and the disparity between each lap is unacceptable. It is not unmanageable and it is only egregious on the fronts or so I have heard.
Timing: 22 february, wednesday. Catalunya, Spain.
I think this is something they will be able to fine tune, and dial out without sacrificing race pace. I hope
On the flip side Ferrari should be a good prime tire car, and who knows, they may be able to avoid their biggest shortcoming of last season, which is being road-kill in the last stint at the end of the race when they have to run hard compounds.
Feb.23 (GMM)Lotus left after taking part in the first two days of testing this week…That leaves two days of non-participation. I think it would be benevolent of the rest of the field to give Lotus one extra day, but no more. What is the reasoning behind positively reinforcing negative behavior?Quote:
Embattled Lotus will ask its formula one rivals for permission to conduct a three-day private test after it has resolved a chassis flaw.
The former Renault team pulled out of this week's Barcelona test after the unspecified problem was identified early during the opening day's running on Tuesday.
With pre-season preparations limited to just three tests in 2012, next week's Barcelona running will be the last before the championship begins in Australia.
:s ailor: Next thing you know they will be insisting that FOTA honors Kimi's markers to support his gelato habit.
If I were Caterham - I'd politely suggest they go and whistle.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
I think McLaren are going well, but Red Bull are still looking like the team to beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
:s ailor: Aye! :s pin:Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
I see that at Barcelona some teams have finally started to concentrate on getting some speed out of the car after being at the back at Jerez. Mostly Sauber (2nd yesterday) and Williams today. I think the lap of Williams (1:22.391) was pretty much a qualifying sim - also on supersoft tyres as reported. Others haven't shown their maximum yet, so we can only guess, how much faster the rivals can go.
Looking at the comments around, Red Bull seems to be the car to beat (hardly surprising!). Arguably McLaren runs close, but it is anyone's guess, how close exactly. Is it closer than last year or perhaps even able to match RBR? Ferrari has improved, but are still behind the leaders. As is Mercedes. Lotus with their chassis issues is now a complete unknown - how much are they going to fall?! Midfield is still hard to rank, but it looks like Caterham is finding it overwhelmingly difficult to threaten the midfield even in their third season of F1.
Obviously a low fuel run, but Maldonado's time was half a second faster than he managed in Q2 at Barcelona last year, so they've made some improvement (thankfully)!
Incidentally Maldonado's effort in qualifying for the 2011 Spanish GP was absolutely fine, he reached Q3! And pole-time then was 1.20,9.Quote:
Originally Posted by christophulus
So even though at Jerez a few weeks ago Mercedes was fastest with its 2011 car, it looks like in the long-run 2012 cars may well turn out to be faster than its predecessors.
It looks like the FIA will look into it. The "culprits" seem to be RB and McLaren. I put culprits with quotation marks since there are no culprits, according to the FIA, during pre-season practice sessions. Any team can test anything they want legal or illegal. However, all creativity will stop on Fri before the Melbourne GP where all cars, their mapping and their exhausts will be closely checked. I wonder what's going to happen.
Renault announced before testing even began that they'd figured out a way around the ban, and Newey said too that he still had some exhaust tricks working, so I think it was pretty much just a matter of time before this came to a head. The initial report this morning was that Ferrari was protesting and that Mercedes was using the trick as well. But maybe it was McLaren or Merc doing the protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
It doesn't matter. What matters is that it was done before the first race so that we don't have to deal with it then. It has historically been Ferrari's style to wait until the last possible moment to lodge these kinds of complaints. It could put a team or two a little on its back foot, while ensuring it is clarified in time for it to be inaccessible for any part of the season without having to bring the the spectre of penalties into the arguement. What matters is that it was done before the first race so that we don't have to deal with it then. This is no different than any other preseason protest, like the double diffuser issue or anything else, and if I was Ferrari or anyone else that fancies themselfes fighting for wins I would want this out of Red Bull and Newy's developement department ;)
It seems th general feeling is that status quo remains. Very odd! Look back at history and rules changes shakes up the order!Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Williams seem to have been fastest for much of the week, but the press releases seem to suggest that actually the car isn't handling as well as they thought.
Also, I know test times are pretty much meaningless, but I thought that Caterham would make a step towards the midfield (though I wasn't really expecting them to properly catch them). It looks like they haven't, but Marussia and Hispania have just moved even further to the back.
I think I'd put my money on Vettel for the title again, possibly by some margin - times haven't been special but everyone seems pretty happy with the car, which is more than can be said for most of the competitors. I was expecting Ferrari to make a much bigger step than they appear to have done, considering the rules changes would appear to hurt the 2011 Red Bull and McLaren more than the Ferrari.
McLaren have a major upgrade to come on their car for the final pre-season test.
"Button said after Thursday's testing: "We have an update on the car for the first race. It is not a completely straightforward update as it is not about bolting downforce on the car - it is slightly more than that.
"I just hope we are going in the right direction. The wind tunnel says we are. I am looking to the update next week, and then we can start balancing the car and finding a direction for the first race." "
BBC Sport - Kamui Kobayashi sets pace on final day of Barcelona test
Sounds intriguing
I think this^^^^^ was it bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
Are you saying that you think this was the final pre-season test? .. According to the link there is another test on 1st March...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
Not at all! I have a suspicion the upgrade that Whitmarsh is referring to is the exhaust overrun loop hole that will be programmed out of the ECU. Please take note I said I think not that I know. If it is something else we will find out in due time.
Chill bro :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
Ah, got you now, just didn't know what you meant, I'm chilled bro. :cool:
:)
How do you reconcile "test times are pretty much meaningless" with "I was expecting Ferrari to make a much bigger step than they appear to have done" in you post? How do you know they haven't and how do you know McLaren has? Not based on their times I hope.
I don't know where everybody is. I actually this year I see more hiding then ever before. Especially form Ferrari. And don't forget McLaren being involved in this pre-season mini scandal abouit running their car with they blown diffuser deemed illegal for this season?So, if you say you know how meaningless test times well............they really are. Let's wait and see until..................Barcelona I would say
Rather than Ferrari actually hiding something, I'd believe that they aren't finding their way with the car just yet. However, this isn't really significant, as we still have some weeks to go before the first GP and they can get their car sorted out before then. Or perhaps it's a dog and it doesn't have any of the potential they were looking for. Anyway, considering that, according to various sources, the car wasn't behaving well enough at the exit of the corners, I doubt that they're hiding something, it's just that the car isn't working just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere