Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Volkswagen agrees to freeze development of WRC car - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Volkswagen agrees to freeze development of WRC car - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com :)
I think the WRC can have a face lift homologation by an ET homologation with no need of a new WRC homologation.
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...%282013%29.pdf
Evolution (ET)
Characterises modifications made on a permanent basis to the basic model (complete cessation of the production of the car in its original form.
ET is for the base car. It need to be WR page for competition use if you like to change the look of WRC car.
I know that a WR homologation is also needed but it sounds crazy that with some small body shell modifications to the standard car, a new WR homologation would be needed if all the WRC kit parts remain the same. What’s the point then with an ET homologation?
Not so much anymore, but previous Gp A/N cars needed them.
The freeze comes in towards the end of August I believe
I think there will be no more development of the WRCars then, as it is looking more likely that once R5 comes into play in 2014, that the FIA will shift rallying towards R5 as the top category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad cat jnr
Are there any interviews with team principals, FIA etc that point to that the R5 will replace the WRC? I cant remember reading something like that. R5 is meant to be a support (affordable) class, and not the primary class in WRC, so it is designed with customers in mind. Works teams can go wild on them i they become the primary class and they will no longer be affordableQuote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
I think your very wrong there Nav, there will be further development.
It's difficult to know. It is just my thoughts, so you could well be right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad cat jnr
With the freeze on homologation on current World Rally Cars, and with R5 looking popular. Along with Malcolm Wilson speaking about how R5 has the potential to become the leading category.
We could well see WRC/RRC phased out as R5 cars show up in 2014 more and more.
Remember how so many made it very clear that S2000 was a category that will become the top category in rallying, yet it didn't and now has been frozen.
We will just have to see how things pan out in 2014 and wait to hear what the FIA announce about the whole situation.
Having a mix of categories at the top of rallying, like WRC, RRC, S2000 has not worked with all the WRC for works teams, RRC for this championships, and S2000 for that etc.
Wealthy privateers are done with all this, the whole sport needs one top category with very strict controls on the modifications to the top category to keep costs from going out of control.
I understood that homologation freeze only comprised new WRC homologations, not any new VO homologations.
Also by Malcom Wilson, the price of a R5 is frozen until the end of 2015 so I don’t think there will be any changes in the WRC format before that.
World Rally Championship - News - Wilson: New R5 a big step forward
tank you for share this :)
Quite amazing how bad MSport is to set up the cars before SS 1. They vey often mess it up!
No, this "frozen price" is quite difficult story. FIA set the price limit for S2000 cars, but manufacturers raised that price much more highly. So now there is new system where all costs and prices are regulated...Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Malcolm would like the R5 to be the top class, but admits that with new entrants Hyundai and VW it is not fair just yet. It does make a lot more sense. but from my perspective, I still have issues with manufacturers who do not even market an AWD sports car entering. It needs to be much more production based and is becoming a boring sport with sprints and the same old stages each year.
Forget about that dream. Times changed. No manufacturer can afford to develop and produce road-going WRC anymore. A stock car has became a colossal process which requires years of preparations, thousands of people, hundreds of sub-suppliers, after-sale services all over the Globe etc. Plus there are more and more strict emission and fuel-consumption standards. Also the market for such cars is very small. Nobody can make profit out of that. Current WRC rules are simply multiply cheaper for any manufacturer than production based rallycars. They are also much more flexible. Imagine what it is to change just one button in the dashboard in a stock car. It takes several months and huge money to implement any change in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by litifeta
Thats a nice explanation but.
People are getting less interested in the sport if they cannot buy streetversions of a wrc car. (I mean no stickertuning versions) Also Dtm does not have the apeal from a big audience like it was in the time they raced e30 DTM. Win on sunday sell on monday.
Cars became a common consumer goods through the years. It's very different to situation 30 years a go. In the days when having a car with 60 Hp was something of a value to see a car with 300 Hp was something special itself. Who can be stunned by 300 Hp strong cars in 2013? Everybody can buy a 300 Hp car today. There's hardly any way out of this. World no longer lives by motoring. Do You think more buyers are interested in sporty suspension of their new car than in its comfort, color, audio or modern electronic stuff to play with? I doubt so. Thirty years a go people used to know at least what they have under the bonnet. Now even BMW goes 3-cylinder FWD way...
I don't underatand this - people won't follow the WRC because they can't buy a 'street version'? Sadly, this is quite a common view I see repeatedly on other car forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
I never hear this from F1, LMP1 fans....... ;)
That's because if they are a F1 LiMP1 BTCC, WTCC NASCAR INDY whatever fan-boi, they already obviously don't care, they are mere media consumers--since they CAN'T buy--or even SIT in anything like what they get their ya-yas out watching..Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Me I don't think I could manage to watch ANY of that stuff even for serious money.. Aside from the extremely high chance of death by boredom, there is zero connection to ANYTHING.. They are all mostly engineering exercises.
As WRC became so unlimited, so detached, and so expensive, my own interest has plummeted.
I am not interested in the adventures of rich "tourists", but so expensive is the making of the cars, the whole field is mostly full of just ordinary guys (in terms of skill or detrimination) who this week decided to play rally-driver.
When the cars are only attainable by paying Malcolm Wilson 5 million squids, the ability to spend 5 million is the primary "talent" a person must have..and POOOF! Instant WRC driver.
Personally I can't see not being able to buy a street version of a C4/Fiesta/Polo/I30 4wd etc an issue.
It's the spectacle and competition (often not too much of that....) that attracts the more casual fan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
So thru!!!
Look at Soccer. People buying David Beckem shirts playing on the streets with a football and they can practice and practice and if they have talent they are going to the top.
I know buying cars is more expensive then a football but you get the idea. If you wanna find new rally talents you need to let people drive road cars like evo s and subaru s and eventually they are building there street evo into a rallycar. If prof rallyteams have talent spotters they can offer them testdrives.
But nowadays you must buy you into expensive rally cars. De dream is already over if you know the cost. The path from hobby weekend rally driver to new talent is not there anymore. It s becoming a money show. Bring a big budget and you be a WRC rally driver in a blink of eye.
So Ogier, Loeb, Solberg, Gronholm, McRae, and the others don't have talent? What kind of utter bullshit is this reasoning?
Motorsport has always been very expensive, it's in the nature of the sport. I don't know what the hell you are expecting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
LOL... it was always like that.
Rallying was always a sport for the upper class... and it will always be, especially when it comes to building a career out of it.
Actually it was not always like that everywhere. For every rule exists and exception and in this case it was the system used in the Eastern block. But that's more a historical curiosity than anything relevant for today.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
when it comes to local competition you do not need money to rally...but if you want to make something out of it you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Around we go in another circle!
I've never in my life thought I'm going to stop watching Rallying because;
A. I don't have enough money to be a WRC driver.
or
B. I can't buy a 4wd turbo version of the latest WRC car.
It seems we all too often make excuses for the sport we love, when in fact it's just not that popular! Doesn't bother me, keeps the forests empty and I can still enjoy the finest drivers go flat out sideways. At the same time I can use what ever little money I have to play around in the odd amateur event.
Has anyone ever asked the question, why do we even want rallying to be popular? Watching it live at the stages in the last 10 or 15 years hasn't changed, so why are we bothered?
You want it to be popular so you can have 4-5 manufacturers and see 2-3 proper drivers in each one of them and the stray dogs with fleas can run after 10-20 cars... Of course you will get the casual overweight sweatbag F1 fan next to you on the stages but i can live with that if we have the first option as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doon
My point is that 10 years ago there were 7 manufacturer teams, loads of decent drivers, more fans at the events, but has the live on the stage action ever changed? No it hasn't. Lets stop moaning and enjoy rallying for what it is.
Besides, having as many teams as seven is very exceptional situation in the history of WRC. The norm has been about half of that so what we really need is not that much, provided that Citroen stays with real intention.
Donty get too hung up on the value of manufacturers teams, if they all left the sport would evolve and survive, they arent a bad thing for the sport but they certainly arent the be all and end all for it, in ways they have used there power to stem some of the good bits of the sport
There's the critical thing. Rally has since the "World rally Car" rules become "just a spectacle" in a media world filled with tons of other spectacles.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
Gone totally ---except at the club level in great events like Finlands amazing F-cup---is the old idea of what I call "identification".
Now just parade ANYTHING (rally car, Touring car, drag car, F1 car, moto-cross bike, sail boat, airplane, skateboard, skier, Monster truck ANY thing) plastered 100% in Bed Rull, Dubai, Microsoft, Merril Lynch signage , pay some fools to babble and rant and "analyze' the "brilliant move" by some schmuck---and you've done what you intended. :crazy:
Like most things "made for TV" the thing itself (in our case rally) is relatively unimportant, it is a small part of the "media package".
Mirek is right, tho. The economics of building good base cars in the old 5000 units or the reduced 2500 means we won't see anything like the cars we once saw--and own.
So our choice is simple, we should be simple minded, obedient media consumers and learn from the F1 and Nascar fans---maybe if we all stuffed enough burgers and swilled enough beer and Bed Rull or Monsterous Energy drink to paralyze our brains, we could argue incessantly about each gearchange some guy manages to do like its an important and amazing achievement... :rolleyes:
Or we could just build nice simple cars from the 80s and 90s and go get sideways ourselves! :hot:
Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Awesome post!!!
does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?
The majority of people here I suspect...:)
if somebody confirm it for you then you will begin asking for another driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
How old are you? Sorry, but your questioning reminds me of my 6 year old niece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Have to disagree with NOT, Even at the local level you have to have some "money." Like when you call Janvanvurpa for his $2500 suspension, and your nearest event is a 10hr drive for an entry fee of $600, and the sanctioning body decides to finally update helmet rules and deems your $600 helmet unusable for next year after only 8 events. So it's all relative but it still takes money
I'm truely sorry, i will stop asking those stupid questions, i promiseQuote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107