The future of the Euro and EU.

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

8th November 2011, 14:55
Lousada

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Thought you might appreciate a quick overview of economics in the Euro Zone.

Some years ago a small rural town in Spain twinned with a similar town in Greece. The Mayor of the Greek town visited the Spanish town. When he saw the palatial mansion belonging to the Spanish mayor he wondered how he could afford such a house. The Spaniard said; "You see that bridge over there? The EU gave us a grant to build a two-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge with traffic lights at either end this house could be built".

The following year the Spaniard visited the Greek town. He was simply amazed at the Greek Mayor's house, gold taps, marble floors, it was marvellous. When he asked how this could be afforded the Greek said; "You see that bridge over there?" The Spaniard replied; "No."

Amusing. But you do realise those bridges are paid for by EU funds, and not "Euro Zone" funds right? You know that EU to which the UK contributes 57 billion each year.
8th November 2011, 17:27
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Yes of course, but my business is progressive and adapts with the times and changes. I have made double the money during the current world recession (2008 - now) than I did in the 3 years before. I just picked up the slack from other companies that liquidated and found new avenues of business to pursue. There is always business out there, some people bother to go out and find it, the rest close down and bitch about it being someone else's fault.

As I said, the weak make way for the strong.

In my world the strong take care of the weak.
9th November 2011, 05:40
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

In my world the strong take care of the weak.

We live in the same world. Take care of elderly people.....yes. Take care of children.....yes. Help sick people.....yes. Help people who run bad businesses.....no.

Almost 7 years ago I started a small sideline business that assists people who want to start a company, market their company, plan etc etc. They get this service for FREE and it costs me a bit of bob every year, but I see it as a better way of giving back to my community than handing out free food at a soup stand that leaves the recipients hungry again the next day. But thats just me!

Back on topic...The Euro Zone can sort itself out if it really wants to, the questions is do the politicians and governments of the Euro Zone have the resolve to do it? I'm sceptical at the moment.
9th November 2011, 05:42
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lousada

Amusing. But you do realise those bridges are paid for by EU funds, and not "Euro Zone" funds right? You know that EU to which the UK contributes 57 billion each year.

57 billion Zimbabwean dollars is actually just pocket change ;)
9th November 2011, 12:03
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

57 billion Zimbabwean dollars is actually just pocket change ;)

When it was abandoned, 1 US$ was the equivalent of 669,000,000,000 Z$ so a mere 57bn Z$ was hardly even pocket change :laugh:

You can buy a $100 Trillion note for a few US$ as a keepsake :D

http://jjttjj.com/zimbabwe-dollars/p...lars-front.jpg
9th November 2011, 14:35
555-04Q2

:laugh: Monopoly money is worth more :p :
9th November 2011, 14:50
Sonic

I have an almost overwhelming desire to raise my little finger to my lips and yell ONE HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLARS!
9th November 2011, 17:22
Knock-on

I'd just like to take a taxi in Harare and ask the driver if he can break a $100,000,000,000,000 note :D
9th November 2011, 20:42
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

I don't think anyone really cares about the Greeks,that's not the reason measures are being taken. They're trying to protect other countries and basically the whole world economy from a serious downturn.

:up:
It took 55 posts for someone to come up with the real reason why Greeks are being saved even though they do not deserve it one bit.
9th November 2011, 20:44
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

This is so true. Talk here is that it could affect Australia's economy. I think the only guy to end up not suffering any economic fallout is China.

False. If their markets go down the drain China will go down the same way.
9th November 2011, 20:46
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

China has so big domestic market that is in many ways undeveloped they just have to sell the stuff there that did go to export, so the effect will be quite small.

There is a good reason why their domestic market is undeveloped, they are very poor and can't afford to buy the most basic things.
9th November 2011, 20:50
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

It is indeed time for a change. But the pain we will all have to suffer to facilitate that change is gonna hurt.

It would hurt a lot, for everyone, EU, UK, US and so on.
9th November 2011, 20:51
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Thought you might appreciate a quick overview of economics in the Euro Zone.

Some years ago a small rural town in Spain twinned with a similar town in Greece. The Mayor of the Greek town visited the Spanish town. When he saw the palatial mansion belonging to the Spanish mayor he wondered how he could afford such a house. The Spaniard said; "You see that bridge over there? The EU gave us a grant to build a two-lane bridge, but by building a single lane bridge with traffic lights at either end this house could be built".

The following year the Spaniard visited the Greek town. He was simply amazed at the Greek Mayor's house, gold taps, marble floors, it was marvellous. When he asked how this could be afforded the Greek said; "You see that bridge over there?" The Spaniard replied; "No."

:up: Good one! :laugh:
9th November 2011, 21:30
Malbec

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

There is a good reason why their domestic market is undeveloped, they are very poor and can't afford to buy the most basic things.

You might want to visit China first. There are 1 billion poor people like you describe, the remaining 200 million in the major cities and the coastline have pretty good living standards with all the mod-cons.
9th November 2011, 22:47
Brown, Jon Brow

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

It would hurt a lot, for everyone, EU, UK, US and so on.

Why have you separated the UK from the EU? :p
9th November 2011, 22:59
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malbec

You might want to visit China first. There are 1 billion poor people like you describe, the remaining 200 million in the major cities and the coastline have pretty good living standards with all the mod-cons.

So that makes it 15 percent people able to live a normal life and 85% who have bugger all chances to ever support the market needs of the Chinese industry that are now absorbed by the US, Europe and other countries. Looks very bad to me.
9th November 2011, 23:00
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Why have you separated the UK from the EU? :p

Currency?
9th November 2011, 23:00
Brown, Jon Brow

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Currency?

I didn't know the EU was a currency! :p

.....sorry
9th November 2011, 23:01
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Currency?

That is a separation between the UK and the Eurozone, not the UK and the EU.
10th November 2011, 01:18
Roamy

T>I>R>E.s just print more money and move on and don't screw up Italy
10th November 2011, 04:10
Rollo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamy

T>I>R>E.s just print more money and move on and don't screw up Italy

The land of the bound and the home of the timid have already been doing this for 222 years. You call it Quantitative Easing :D
10th November 2011, 11:17
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

So that makes it 15 percent people able to live a normal life and 85% who have bugger all chances to ever support the market needs of the Chinese industry that are now absorbed by the US, Europe and other countries. Looks very bad to me.

'Normal' in China is the 85% you mentioned. The 15% are exceptional.

Basically, what the majority of China and India are is what is 'normal' for this world. We have a very abnormal and privileged existence in Europe; even Greece!
10th November 2011, 12:15
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

'Normal' in China is the 85% you mentioned. The 15% are exceptional.

Basically, what the majority of China and India are is what is 'normal' for this world. We have a very abnormal and privileged existence in Europe; even Greece!

Very true statement!
10th November 2011, 15:22
Malbec

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

So that makes it 15 percent people able to live a normal life and 85% who have bugger all chances to ever support the market needs of the Chinese industry that are now absorbed by the US, Europe and other countries. Looks very bad to me.

How short memories are these days.

So back in 2008 when the credit crunch hit and Chinese exports dipped transiently by up to 40% as Western makers let their stocks dry, China's economy still grew between 8-10% and their car market overtook the USA's to be the biggest in the world... Chinese consumers then helped bridge the gap and they are even wealthier now.

I'm afraid there's more to the world than the US and Europe, the BRI parts of the BRIC economies are also large export markets for the Chinese as is the third world and they're still growing. And if the Chinese government wants to put in a stimulus package they've got trillions of dollars stashed away for a rainy day.

As I said, if the Chinese run into problems its because their economy will overheat, not because of what happens in the West.
10th November 2011, 17:05
driveace

We are all living on credit,I am told that in the UK 85% of all bank accounts are in the red,and that 85% of all cars are leased,or financed,so 15% of the UK public who have a bank account or drive a car actually have money in the bank,and own their car !
11th November 2011, 02:48
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

In my world the strong take care of the weak.

So very true! The Mafia are strong and they have ways of "taking care" of the weak. :eek:

It remains to see who is the strong member of the family and who is weak. No longer is Italy strong, and now talk is that France may not be that strong either.
The whole point of the Eurozone situation is whether it was ever economically viable in the long term.
Things are moving very fast right now : one day the Greek PM indicates he will resign and the market goes up; then Bunga Bunga Berlusconi fails to get support from his own party and the market plummets, with the Hang Seng falling over 1000 points. :eek
Then Greece announces a new guy to be PM and the market steadies today. By tonight, France will probably start to look frail and tomorrow's market will probably plummet.

For those who have the cash and dare to play the markets there is a big chance for picking up good shares on sale. There is money to be made when there's blood on the streets.
And for those who picked the wrong shares to buy, there's always the high balcony exit. :eek:
11th November 2011, 08:21
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

So very true! The Mafia are strong and they have ways of "taking care" of the weak. :eek:

It remains to see who is the strong member of the family and who is weak. No longer is Italy strong, and now talk is that France may not be that strong either.
The whole point of the Eurozone situation is whether it was ever economically viable in the long term.
Things are moving very fast right now : one day the Greek PM indicates he will resign and the market goes up; then Bunga Bunga Berlusconi fails to get support from his own party and the market plummets, with the Hang Seng falling over 1000 points. :eek
Then Greece announces a new guy to be PM and the market steadies today. By tonight, France will probably start to look frail and tomorrow's market will probably plummet.

For those who have the cash and dare to play the markets there is a big chance for picking up good shares on sale. There is money to be made when there's blood on the streets.
And for those who picked the wrong shares to buy, there's always the high balcony exit. :eek:

Pretty soon it's only us Finns and The Germans and perhaps the Netherlands. Wait a minute, haven't I heard that before?

Continuation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11th November 2011, 09:01
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Pretty soon it's only us Finns and The Germans and perhaps the Netherlands. Wait a minute, haven't I heard that before?

Continuation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could be three times a charm for Germany - what it two two world wars to attempt (and failed) they might manage to own most of it by financing the Eurozone and taking over on the quiet........ ;)
11th November 2011, 10:10
Malbec

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Pretty soon it's only us Finns and The Germans and perhaps the Netherlands. Wait a minute, haven't I heard that before?

Continuation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah and the Italians are letting the side down... again!
11th November 2011, 11:12
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by driveace

We are all living on credit,I am told that in the UK 85% of all bank accounts are in the red,and that 85% of all cars are leased,or financed,so 15% of the UK public who have a bank account or drive a car actually have money in the bank,and own their car !

No, not all of us. People who can't afford what they want to buy are living on credit.
12th November 2011, 20:50
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

'Normal' in China is the 85% you mentioned. The 15% are exceptional.

Basically, what the majority of China and India are is what is 'normal' for this world. We have a very abnormal and privileged existence in Europe; even Greece!

I think you meant to say, especially Greece.
12th November 2011, 20:51
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamy

T>I>R>E.s just print more money and move on and don't screw up Italy

They've been doing it to themselves for a long time, without any external help.
12th November 2011, 20:55
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

No, not all of us. People who can't afford what they want to buy are living on credit.

Exactly. Never took a credit. Then again I have to pay for other people's iresponsibilities, so maybe I was doing it wrong?!
12th November 2011, 21:13
Sonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

No, not all of us. People who can't afford what they want to buy are living on credit.

And sadly people like us are very much in the minority.
12th November 2011, 21:33
BleAivano

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

That is a separation between the UK and the Eurozone, not the UK and the EU.

true but UK is not the only EU country that still have their own currency. Both Sweden and Denmark have kept their currencies,
so he should have mentiioned them as well in that case.
12th November 2011, 21:42
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleAivano

true but UK is not the only EU country that still have their own currency. Both Sweden and Denmark have kept their currencies,
so he should have mentiioned them as well in that case.

Of course.
12th November 2011, 21:54
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleAivano

true but UK is not the only EU country that still have their own currency. Both Sweden and Denmark have kept their currencies,
so he should have mentiioned them as well in that case.

It was a specific question regarding the UK.
13th November 2011, 00:31
Valve Bounce

OK! so the new PM's of Italy and Greece are selected amid mild euphoria. Next comes the implementation of austerity measures which will NOT be accompanied by euphoria but rather with demonstrations. When the demonstrations will turn into riots and looting and burning of cars remains to be seen; something that I hope will not eventuate.
14th November 2011, 19:27
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

OK! so the new PM's of Italy and Greece are selected amid mild euphoria. Next comes the implementation of austerity measures which will NOT be accompanied by euphoria but rather with demonstrations. When the demonstrations will turn into riots and looting and burning of cars remains to be seen; something that I hope will not eventuate.

Don't plan any holiday in Greece or Italy for the next one or two years, that it shall be OK and cheap.
17th November 2011, 00:05
Valve Bounce

I am becoming increasing concerned about this whole arrangement. This morning's news was about the Greeks becoming very unhappy with the austerity measures and will protest on Friday. What these protests will develop into is anybody's guess. When I was working in Cyprus, the Greek Cypriot resident partner of the firm explained to me that Greeks love a tragedy - and no matter what the situation was (like the Turkish invasion of Cyprus) they simply had to push the envelop until it resulted in a tragedy. How far the Greeks will push this remains to be seen; is being kicked out of Eurozone the tragedy they are aiming for?

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:06.