Lewis Hamilton of the race

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Originally Posted by Daniel

The weird thing is we've seen a far more agressive Hamilton in the past who has been in less scraps so I don't think aggression is the problem as such. I'm really not quite sure what the issue is if I'm honest......

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Perhaps he is try to make half-committed overtaking moves? And keeps putting his car in a position where he will make contact.

I really hope that we get the old Lewis back. His season has just been embarrassing. He has gone from being, in my eyes, from being the best driver on the grid to around 8th.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Perhaps he is try to make half-committed overtaking moves? And keeps putting his car in a position where he will make contact.

I really hope that we get the old Lewis back. His season has just been embarrassing. He has gone from being, in my eyes, from being the best driver on the grid to around 8th.

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8th? Who would you rate ahead of him?

Obviously Vettel, Button, Alonso, Webber..... I can't really think of anyone who has been consistently performing better?

Schumacher's had moments of brilliance, Algesuari has improved, Perez has had a decent enough first season and di Resta isn't doing too badly, but I'd still put Hamilton's season above theirs.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

8th? Who would you rate ahead of him?

Obviously Vettel, Button, Alonso, Webber..... I can't really think of anyone who has been consistently performing better?

Schumacher's had moments of brilliance, Algesuari has improved, Perez has had a decent enough first season and di Resta isn't doing too badly, but I'd still put Hamilton's season above theirs.

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Well maybe driver of the season should be another another thread ;)

What is interesting is that if any other driver had made the mistake Lewis made and then fight back to 5th everyone would be calling him driver of the day (Button v Alonso in Canada?). After his drive-through he was behind Massa, but still finished 4 places higher than him.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Well maybe driver of the season should be another another thread ;)

What is interesting is that if any other driver had made the mistake Lewis made and then fight back to 5th everyone would be calling him driver of the day. After his drive-through he was behind Massa, but still finished 4 places higher than him.

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Yeah, it just shows the depth of talent that Lewis has when he uses it correctly. It was a fantastic comeback drive.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Yeah, it just shows the depth of talent that Lewis has when he uses it correctly. It was a fantastic comeback drive.

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And that Massa can't overtake......

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

And that Massa can't overtake......

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Add that to the list of things Massa can't do. Beat Alonso, drive fast, stop crying when things go wrong etc.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Rubbish explanation. He is a menace to himself and his fellow drivers. Jenson overtakes very well this season and is not marching trough the field as the Red Army.

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Originally Posted by aki13

Never have bought this excuse. A driver can be a racer without losing his concentration and clipping other drivers needlessly.

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Racing on the limit the margin for error is far greater.

[youtube]ko94oniszuA[/youtube]

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Originally Posted by aki13

I don't think he can argue with the penalty, he turned in to early and ruined Massa's race. If hadn't damaged his wing he could have run on and finished 3rd while Massa fell to 20th. So those calling for no penalty would be happy with Hamilton gaining a position through shreading Massa's tyre and seeing Massa at the back. Is that fair?

If you cause even a minor collision that ruins anothers race then a penalty is a must, like Brundle said if no puncture had occured then Hamilton would have been penalized by losing his front wing and Massa would carry on. So no penalty needs to be given

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S**t happens.

It's the nature of open wheeled racing like fender banging in other categories.

Did Webber get a penalty last year for doing the same thing last year? Or how how about Fisi puncturing Schumi's tyre in Brazil 2006?

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Originally Posted by wedge

Did Webber get a penalty last year for doing the same thing last year? Or how how about Fisi puncturing Schumi's tyre in Brazil 2006?

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Or Button for tipping Alonso off in Canada?

We want wheel to wheel racing...but this is getting out of hand. Time for a race ban or two or three to wake him up. He's better than this.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Or Button for tipping Alonso off in Canada?

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These are pretty much all one off events. How many little incidents has Hamilton been involved in this year.

I can think of a few things.
Canada, mullered his car against his team mate.
Spa, fell asleep and wondered across into Kobayashi
Monaco. Forced Maldonado off at turn 1.
British GP barged his way through on Massa rather forcefully.

There have been a lot more incidents that I probably haven't remembered.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

These are pretty much all one off events. How many little incidents has Hamilton been involved in this year.

I can think of a few things.
Canada, mullered his car against his team mate.
Spa, fell asleep and wondered across into Kobayashi
Monaco. Forced Maldonado off at turn 1.
British GP barged his way through on Massa rather forcefully.

There have been a lot more incidents that I probably haven't remembered.

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Hammy has had 8 incidents this year. As I said above, time for a ban to wake him up. He is a far better driver than this. He is making Irvine & Sato look like angels :p :

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I can think of a few things...

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Each of those could be viewed differently:
Canada - Button closed a gap that was there momentarily
Spa - moved back across to take the racing line having (he thought) completed a pass
Monaco - a 50/50 racing incident
Britain - both drivers were racing for position

Yes Hamilton has had a number of incidents this season. I do think some were as a result of the kind of driver he is (forceful), but I wouldn't want him to stop going for gaps and racing hard. That's what makes him exciting to watch and has already made him very successful.

It's not working for him this year, and we can all speculate on why that may be, but he just seems to be having one of those years. Vettel, on the other hand, is having one of those years when everything goes right. It happens.

It happened to me this morning. Woke up to find cat had been sick on sofa :mad: Showered, dressed ready to go to work and found seagulls had crapped all over the car :mad: That doesn't happen every day, and Lewis Hamilton will not continue to have this kind of season every season.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Each of those could be viewed differently:
Canada - Button closed a gap that was there momentarily
Spa - moved back across to take the racing line having (he thought) completed a pass
Monaco - a 50/50 racing incident
Britain - both drivers were racing for position

Yes Hamilton has had a number of incidents this season. I do think some were as a result of the kind of driver he is (forceful), but I wouldn't want him to stop going for gaps and racing hard. That's what makes him exciting to watch and has already made him very successful.

It's not working for him this year, and we can all speculate on why that may be, but he just seems to be having one of those years. Vettel, on the other hand, is having one of those years when everything goes right. It happens.

It happened to me this morning. Woke up to find cat had been sick on sofa :mad: Showered, dressed ready to go to work and found seagulls had crapped all over the car :mad: That doesn't happen every day, and Lewis Hamilton will not continue to have this kind of season every season.

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Perhaps the gods were paying you back for disagreeing with me about the Lewis Hamilton verbal assault arrest thread :p I've got some poop on the side of my which can only be from an albatross or something :mark: Really need to get the pressure washer out and give the car a good wash.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

These are pretty much all one off events. How many little incidents has Hamilton been involved in this year.

I can think of a few things.
Canada, mullered his car against his team mate.
Spa, fell asleep and wondered across into Kobayashi
Monaco. Forced Maldonado off at turn 1.
British GP barged his way through on Massa rather forcefully.

There have been a lot more incidents that I probably haven't remembered.

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See, depends on the view you have.

Canada, racing incident, no one to blame.
Spa, yes, should have checked his mirrors, but again racing incident. Both him and Kamui made assumptions, both were wrong.
Monaco, Maldonado clearly knew Hamilton was there, he turned early into the corner to block him after Lewis had committed to the overtake. He left Lewis with nowhere to go but into the side of him.
British GP, It was Massa that barged his way through Hamilton. Hamilton defended, slid into the side of him accidentally, even Domenicali said this and Massa ran out of the little talent he has just before crossing the start finish line.

In fairness, you can look at these incidents and come to a few conclusions: That Hamilton is really stupid. He is really unlucky or just accept them as racing incidents. Personally, I feel he has been very unlucky and a little stupid at times.

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Originally Posted by henners88

You could step under it and give yourself a cold shower at the same time. Make sure the pressure is right up though.. ;) :p

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I may have to henners, we're getting our bathroom done this week and I'm sure by the time I get home our lovely mint green bathroom suite will have been ripped out and nothing will be in its place.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

See, depends on the view you have.

Canada, racing incident, no one to blame.
Spa, yes, should have checked his mirrors, but again racing incident. Both him and Kamui made assumptions, both were wrong.
Monaco, Maldonado clearly knew Hamilton was there, he turned early into the corner to block him after Lewis had committed to the overtake. He left Lewis with nowhere to go but into the side of him.
British GP, It was Massa that barged his way through Hamilton. Hamilton defended, slid into the side of him accidentally, even Domenicali said this and Massa ran out of the little talent he has just before crossing the start finish line.

In fairness, you can look at these incidents and come to a few conclusions: That Hamilton is really stupid. He is really unlucky or just accept them as racing incidents. Personally, I feel he has been very unlucky and a little stupid at times.

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I will accept that people can have different views of the incidents, but at some stage you have to accept that Lewis seems to be getting involved in more of these incidents than other driver. Now of course Vettel wouldn't be getting involved in incidents like this because he doesn't need to overtake anyone most weekends, but if you look at Alonso or Button or Webber, they're all similarly racey and don't really seem to get involved in many accidents at all.

Do you at least accept that Hamilton seems more accident prone than other drivers?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I will accept that people can have different views of the incidents, but at some stage you have to accept that Lewis seems to be getting involved in more of these incidents than other driver. Now of course Vettel wouldn't be getting involved in incidents like this because he doesn't need to overtake anyone most weekends, but if you look at Alonso or Button or Webber, they're all similarly racey and don't really seem to get involved in many accidents at all.

Do you at least accept that Hamilton seems more accident prone than other drivers?

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I do accept that, yes. But that's only this year. He has never been this accident prone any other year.

Maybe he is second-guessing himself too much. Too many limp-wristed, clumsy and poorly thought out attempts at passing.

As opposed to this:

Hami sneaks by Kimi at Monza 2007 - YouTube

What happened? :\

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Originally Posted by Matthew

Maybe he is second-guessing himself too much. Too many limp-wristed, clumsy and poorly thought out attempts at passing.

As opposed to this:

Hami sneaks by Kimi at Monza 2007 - YouTube

What happened? :\

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Wow. the cars sure were fugly back then.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I do accept that, yes. But that's only this year. He has never been this accident prone any other year.

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I would tend to agree. I think perhaps he's had an accident or two more than others per year, but nothing crazy like this year.

I think it´s the stress building up and up. Seb, Jenson, the media etc. The wheel turns faster and faster, it´s a tough situation but it´s his fifth season in F1.

He's "very unlucky" , "a little stupid" , and "accident prone" .

Wow .

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

I think it´s the stress building up and up. Seb, Jenson, the media etc. The wheel turns faster and faster, it´s a tough situation but it´s his fifth season in F1.

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That was clear and concise , and my opinion as well .

Wow .

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Originally Posted by Mark

Yet again...

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Mark , owner of the site , stirs it .

Wow .

I'd rather see a highly competitive and aggressive race than a race where overtakes are surgically boring.

If the driver would have to make mistakeless decisions at those speeds, then why on Earth did they ever pursue a racing career, when they could be the fastest surgeons on the planet, do several times more operations in a day than normal doctors and without any mistakes.

Racing is racing and **** happens. If you want no contact sport, watch golf for a change.

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Originally Posted by Franky

Racing is racing and **** happens. If you want no contact sport, watch golf for a change.

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You've obviously never been hit on the back of the leg by a golf ball :D

I can understand that they don't want to ban Hamilton for a race or two. It wouldn't be good business.

But I wonder how he would drive if he was actually given a proper warning, as in "Cut the s**t out or you'll be black-flagged in this race and you'll miss the next one". He'd probably win, or at least get a podium! If he had been in Button's position in the closing laps I think he would have put Vettel under a lot more pressure, but he can't get himself into a position like that driving the way he does now.
"No, I'll never change how I drive, blah, blah, blah." Sad, macho nonsense.
And it's not just this season. Remember he was caught lieing to the stewards, driving his road car like an eejit. There's always some crap going on with Hamilton.
Some real punishment might actually focus him on not making these silly mistakes. It would probably be good for him, F1 and everyone.

As. His father says ,he needs a manager there at every race to take the pressure off him on race weekends.His father is with PDResta,and Jenson has his father there as is Massa,a father,and Webbers father,but Lewis needs to have HIS father,there for him to shield him from the **** that fly,s at race weekends.Get it sorted with your father Lewis,you need some one close to talk to too .I still feel that the MS blocking in the last race was a German ,helping another German ,his best friend Seb.

i have just read previous posts on this thread comparing the web/ham incident of singapore last year to sundays clash and i agree they were not exactly the same,where i do find similarities though is web running into the back of ham at oz 2010 and punting him into gravel(available on youtube for those who cant remember)and also alonso running into the back of ham at i think malaysia this year,both i believe escaping penalties.as for the argument that it should only be penalised if the innocent driver suffers damage,i do not agree,this surely then just comes down to luck and equally poor driving does not get punished the same.in football a foul is a foul whether the innocent player is injured all not!

Good points go mads.

However, on this forum, you need to realise that if Hamilton does anything, then it because of his lifestyle, he's spoilt, his non-manager, his Bo Diddley friends, he's arrogant etc and he needs to be banned to teach him a lesson. In fact, you can compile a list of incidents where he is either not to blame or has been sinned against and use this as collateral for why he should be punished because he happened to be stupid enough to be on track.

Whenever anyone else does it, it's an accident.

Simples :D

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Originally Posted by Franky

I'd rather see a highly competitive and aggressive race than a race where overtakes are surgically boring.

If the driver would have to make mistakeless decisions at those speeds, then why on Earth did they ever pursue a racing career, when they could be the fastest surgeons on the planet, do several times more operations in a day than normal doctors and without any mistakes.

Racing is racing and **** happens. If you want no contact sport, watch golf for a change.

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We can all accept the occasional incident now and then. Problem is, Hammy boy has not had the occassional incident this year but many. He's been taking many people out this season with his banzai moves. He should get a race or two ban to think about it and sort out his mind.

Other than that, he's a fantastic driver.

I´m looking forward to the next race in Japan now!

Excited already.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Good points go mads.

However, on this forum, you need to realise that if Hamilton does anything, then it because of his lifestyle, he's spoilt, his non-manager, his Bo Diddley friends, he's arrogant etc and he needs to be banned to teach him a lesson. In fact, you can compile a list of incidents where he is either not to blame or has been sinned against and use this as collateral for why he should be punished because he happened to be stupid enough to be on track.

Whenever anyone else does it, it's an accident.

Simples :D

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See my post # 117.

He also needs to get his father back in his camp. The wheels started to fall off on and off the track as soona s his guidance was gone.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

We can all accept the occasional incident now and then. Problem is, Hammy boy has not had the occassional incident this year but many. He's been taking many people out this season with his banzai moves. He should get a race or two ban to think about it and sort out his mind.

Other than that, he's a fantastic driver.

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This suggestion is ridiculous and everytime I read it I fear for the writer's sanity. Every driver goes through bad patches. Hamilton is going through one. He will bounce back. Banning him for a race or two will solve nothing.

When have you ever seen a top driver banned for a race or two? It has never happened and there would want to be some drastic action on Hamilton's part to justify something like that. Nothing he has done justifies a race ban. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

This suggestion is ridiculous and everytime I read it I fear for the writer's sanity. Every driver goes through bad patches. Hamilton is going through one. He will bounce back. Banning him for a race or two will solve nothing.

When have you ever seen a top driver banned for a race or two? It has never happened and there would want to be some drastic action on Hamilton's part to justify something like that. Nothing he has done justifies a race ban. Nothing.

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So if I'm not allowed to have an opinion, why bother posting another opinion that opposes mine. I think we know who the insane one is here :s hock:

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

So if I'm not allowed to have an opinion, why bother posting another opinion that opposes mine. I think we know who the insane one is here :s hock:

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Again I do really now fear for your sanity. I never said or implied you weren't allowed to have an opinion. I was clearly voicing my opposing opinion and what I thought of yours.

Gee Chuck, I guess no one has ever done that around here before.

You implied that I was insane, numb nuts...

...555 5555...insanity helpline...all welcome...

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

You implied that I was insane, numb nuts...

...555 5555...insanity helpline...all welcome...

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Yes, I fear for your sanity because your opinion, in my view, is crazy. I again don't get where I said you weren't allowed an opinion. Stop being so insecure :p

Here's an interesting take on things by Mark Hughes:

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Lewis Hamilton has been involved in a litany of on-track errors this year - but could they have their roots in the 2011 F1 regulations?
Could it be that the very qualities that made him the best overtaker in the business under the previous regulations - when passing was much more difficult - are now the very things that are landing him in trouble?

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BBC Sport - Is Lewis Hamiton being hampered by the 2011 Formula 1 rulebook?

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

This suggestion is ridiculous and everytime I read it I fear for the writer's sanity. Every driver goes through bad patches. Hamilton is going through one. He will bounce back. Banning him for a race or two will solve nothing.

When have you ever seen a top driver banned for a race or two? It has never happened and there would want to be some drastic action on Hamilton's part to justify something like that. Nothing he has done justifies a race ban. Nothing.

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3 reprimands justify sanction . Is it a race ban ?