Pirelli

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleeper

From what I've read from more knowledgeable sources than Pitpass, what we're seeing in testing is a combination of cold weather and Pirillis very stiff construction leading to serious degredation. What none of you has mentioned so far is that the tyres arent being run in the conditions they were designed for. it should also be pointed out that Pirelli dont have data of their own to work with so they've had to go conservative on the construction to start with, and they do maintain the right to make changes mid season if it proves that they've gone to far. Everything else in this thread is speculation and hot air.

---

Pirelli isn't very stiff. It's construction is softer than Bridgestones. Massa can lean more from the outside tyres when cornering.

Paul Hembrey -Pirelli
“We have to communicate very clearly our priorities and objectives in Formula 1, which is to fulfil the brief handed to us by FOM and FOTA to promote overtaking,”
“Because of that we have constructed a tyre that is designed to last for about 100 kilometres (62 miles), which should lead to two pit-stops per race on average. Naturally, that doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of building a tyre that will last a whole race or even five or six races – in fact, it would be considerably easier to do so."
“Instead, we want to do something to help the show a bit, but we need to make it clear that the wear characteristics of these F1 tyres are completely different to those of our road car tyres because they are built to do two entirely different jobs. It’s like comparing mozzarella cheese to parmesan and we are very clear about this.”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Paul Hembrey -Pirelli
“We have to communicate very clearly our priorities and objectives in Formula 1, which is to fulfil the brief handed to us by FOM and FOTA to promote overtaking,”
“Because of that we have constructed a tyre that is designed to last for about 100 kilometres (62 miles), which should lead to two pit-stops per race on average. Naturally, that doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of building a tyre that will last a whole race or even five or six races – in fact, it would be considerably easier to do so."
“Instead, we want to do something to help the show a bit, but we need to make it clear that the wear characteristics of these F1 tyres are completely different to those of our road car tyres because they are built to do two entirely different jobs. It’s like comparing mozzarella cheese to parmesan and we are very clear about this.”

---

So, no relevance or transference whatsover to the 'real motoring world' then....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, no relevance or transference whatsover to the 'real motoring world' then....

---

Best transfer I can find in it would be to say that it will confirm one extreme end of the tailoring to specific conditions scale , not that it would be of much use on the road anyway .
But then , a tire that would run longer , like the Bridgestones or Michelins from years past weren't really running all that much farther , maybe double the mileage .
And , they were producing marbles as well , especially in the thick of the tire war .

There's not much difference in the end , and no F1 tire has been appropriate in any way for being a road tire for a long , long time .

Aren't Pirelli road tyres really soft anyway (in general), hence why they're so good. If you want something that's going miles then get something cheap like Nankang ditch-finders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Paul Hembrey -Pirelli
“We have to communicate very clearly our priorities and objectives in Formula 1, which is to fulfil the brief handed to us by FOM and FOTA to promote overtaking,”
“Because of that we have constructed a tyre that is designed to last for about 100 kilometres (62 miles), which should lead to two pit-stops per race on average. Naturally, that doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of building a tyre that will last a whole race or even five or six races – in fact, it would be considerably easier to do so."
“Instead, we want to do something to help the show a bit, but we need to make it clear that the wear characteristics of these F1 tyres are completely different to those of our road car tyres because they are built to do two entirely different jobs. It’s like comparing mozzarella cheese to parmesan and we are very clear about this.”

---

Thanks for that. Unfortunately it won't stop the cries of "Pirelli tyres are rubbish!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barryfullalove

Aren't Pirelli road tyres really soft anyway (in general), hence why they're so good. If you want something that's going miles then get something cheap like Nankang ditch-finders.

---

Depends which ones you get, when I first got my Fiesta I got Pirelli Zero Nero's on it, and they gave very good grip, but were indeed quite soft so wore out quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, no relevance or transference whatsover to the 'real motoring world' then....

---

Again, don't blame Pirelli. It's the stupid rules and Todt being anally retarded for not getting rid of using both compounds during a race. Any other company would have problems promoting their tyres on the back of F1 with the current rules.

While yes it's true in a way that it's not Pirelli's fault, it's the fault of the rules with the control tyres, at the end of the day Pirelli knew the rules and the "brief" when they signed up, so they knew what they were getting themselves into. In that respect I have no sympathy for them. If you willingly aid and abet a criminal then you are in turn guilty of an offence yourself.

I've far more respect for Michelin who have stuck to their principles and said they'd only come back when there was proper competition again. Sadly I'm not sure if we ever will again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by V12

I've far more respect for Michelin who have stuck to their principles and said they'd only come back when there was proper competition again. Sadly I'm not sure if we ever will again.

---

I think Michelin were prepared to be the sole tyre supplier, but with a condition;

That they could use this opportunity as a research bed for their energy saving tyres, knowledge from which they would apply directly to their road car tyre range......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I think Michelin were prepared to be the sole tyre supplier, but with a condition;

That they could use this opportunity as a research bed for their energy saving tyres, knowledge from which they would apply directly to their road car tyre range......

---

I must admit I've probably digested less F1 news the past year as my interest level has begun to wane somewhat with these new rules, so did a quick Google search to refresh my memory.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/14191.html

Looks like we're both right, it seemed that there were a few factors affecting their return - competition, a common architecture with their sportscar tyres, and what you mentioned above.

All in all, much more honourable intentions than Pirelli's though.

Nothing personal against Pirelli - I cheered for them against Michelin back in the WRC glory days when the likes of McRae and Burns were on them, but they're selling themselves horribly short when if they and other tyre manufacturers went along with Michelin's stance they could force the FIA's hand on this, and benefit their own R&D for their everyday products too.

For you guys slagging Pirelli , how much difference in amount of relativity to road use is there really , whether the tires last either one hundred miles or two hundred miles ?

And , why does nobody from that camp believe that the tires will act rather differently when they run at places with a little more temperature to put the tires through a proper heat cycle ?
It has been pointed out by the company a number of times that they haven't seen much heat in testing . They believe the marble problem will be much less with hot weather as well , as a result as well .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I think Michelin were prepared to be the sole tyre supplier, but with a condition;

That they could use this opportunity as a research bed for their energy saving tyres, knowledge from which they would apply directly to their road car tyre range......

---

Actually they were advocating larger rims/tyres and thus save costs by sharing technology used in endurance racing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by V12

While yes it's true in a way that it's not Pirelli's fault, it's the fault of the rules with the control tyres, at the end of the day Pirelli knew the rules and the "brief" when they signed up, so they knew what they were getting themselves into. In that respect I have no sympathy for them. If you willingly aid and abet a criminal then you are in turn guilty of an offence yourself.

I've far more respect for Michelin who have stuck to their principles and said they'd only come back when there was proper competition again. Sadly I'm not sure if we ever will again.

---

I know you're an advocate greater competition and variables but I wonder if you're persuaded by any of Pat Symonds' thoughts?

http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/...h-pat-symonds/

At least the marking should be easier to distinguish than a simple green stripe:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90008

Wet - orange
Intermediate - light blue
Supersoft - red
Soft – yellow
Medium – white
Hard – silver

White and Silver look similar to me. Hope it looks different in action.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

White and Silver look similar to me. Hope it looks different in action.

---

Agreed. Why couldn't they use green?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

White and Silver look similar to me. Hope it looks different in action.

---

But but but.... white and silver won't be used on the same weekend as there's always one compound in between the two that get chosen.

Very smart colour coding by Pirelli. It should be a lot easier to tell which tyres everyone is on than Bridgestone's green stripe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

White and Silver look similar to me. Hope it looks different in action.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N4D13

Agreed. Why couldn't they use green?

---

exactly, green would have made sense for the hards. hopefully they will change it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave B

But but but.... white and silver won't be used on the same weekend as there's always one compound in between the two that get chosen.

---

still does not negate the fact that they would look too similar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VkmSpouge

Very smart colour coding by Pirelli. It should be a lot easier to tell which tyres everyone is on than Bridgestone's green stripe.

---

Huh?!

Now you need to remember 4 different colors, before it was only one. Very 'smart' indeed.

I'm sure you'll manage - you're a smart cookie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Huh?!

Now you need to remember 4 different colors, before it was only one. Very 'smart' indeed.

---

cmon ioan it is an improvement, I've already memorized the colors, go ahead quiz me ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic

I'm sure you'll manage - you're a smart cookie.

---

Maybe, but I prefer simple things instead of contrived crap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

cmon ioan it is an improvement, I've already memorized the colors, go ahead quiz me ;)

---

:)

The colouring system might confuse the 'one-off' or 'casual' viewer, but us 'hardcore' (for want of a better word) fans will have no problem's I'm sure.

A very casual viewer probably wouldn't even register the difference as something noteworthy.

I just can't help thinking that the silly colouring system is asking for a fiasco. Unless there is protocols in place I can well imagine a batch of the wrong tyres being shipped to a GP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Pirelli isn't very stiff. It's construction is softer than Bridgestones. Massa can lean more from the outside tyres when cornering.

---

Have you got a source? I've basically regurgitated what Mark Hughes has said. As for Massa's driving style, maybe its just a case of the weaker rears balancing out the handling for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

I just can't help thinking that the silly colouring system is asking for a fiasco. Unless there is protocols in place I can well imagine a batch of the wrong tyres being shipped to a GP.

---

They're all barcoded and AFAIK have RFID tags. If anything the colour code would be one additional visual check, I can't think Purelli are that daft as to pack the wrong tyres!

Relax , you kids .
We'll only have two compounds , and announcers who will be well versed in which are which .

The only question is why use silver .

I don't suppose they wanted equal time for the top team colours , did they ?
Supersoft - red for Ferrari
Soft – yellow for Renault
Medium – white for Sauber
Hard – silver for the Macs and Mercs

It seems like a bit too much coincidence , doesn't it ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Relax , you kids .
We'll only have two compounds , and announcers who will be well versed in which are which .

The only question is why use silver .

I don't suppose they wanted equal time for the top team colours , did they ?
Supersoft - red for Ferrari
Soft – yellow for Renault
Medium – white for Sauber
Hard – silver for the Macs and Mercs

It seems like a bit too much coincidence , doesn't it ?

---

What about RedBull then?

White and silver? I don't think it's going to be easy telling the difference between the two at speed.

too many colors, since at every gp there will only be 4 tire types possible used, they should have done it this way.

harder of the compound of the weekend = white (to be different from the colors below)
softer = green - symbolizing going faster (for 3 laps lol...)! :)
wet = red - symbolizing danger / high caution / very slow
intermediate = yellow - symbolizing slight caution / slow

I think white is good for the hard compound since that is the tire the teams will be on most of the time and its fair to all the different liveries, the tire lettering being white... possibly use blue for the harder compound if white and yellow too similar...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave B

But but but.... white and silver won't be used on the same weekend as there's always one compound in between the two that get chosen.

---

Yes, but can't teams choose which ones they use so one team might go for Ssoft and medium while another go for Soft and Hard?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

What about RedBull then?

---

They have yellow and red , and one of the wet colours , blue .

Or , maybe Pirelli doesn't like them and they should consider themselves dissed .

I know . It was just a question , but why the heck use silver , if it isn't some kind of compensation for the teams that won't have what look like bespoke tires to the general public ?
I should think those red ones will look really good on the red cars , and the yellow on the yellow , etc .

Why not green replacing silver ?
Or , did Pirelli diss Bridgestone over the green sidewall at some point , making it a contradiction to use it ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

Yes, but can't teams choose which ones they use so one team might go for Ssoft and medium while another go for Soft and Hard?

---

I believe the compounds to be used are chosen by the FIA and Pirelli .

The old days , when they brought about a bazillion tires to each race are gone .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

Yes, but can't teams choose which ones they use so one team might go for Ssoft and medium while another go for Soft and Hard?

---

In a word: no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave B

In a word: no.

---

That's four words , Dave .

silver and grey won't be a problem afaik as they'll bring 2 compunds to each race and they'll be one compound between them, so you'll never see grey and silver at the same time. you'll always have one coloured and one grey or silver

is their something else we can complain about, the tyres last too long, the new tyres are too soft and degrade (like they were asked to provide), the colours are wrong.

i really cannot see what everyone is so excited about, it appears that the tyres will add something extra to the races, something taht the Bridgestones didn't do in anything but extreme circumstances