Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Wow! Rob expects fans to buy that crap?

“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once.”

:rolleyes:

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All the players from the big circus are taking the fans for idiots, it's been like this for years already.
And we are idiots because we watch the same crap again and again no matter what.

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Originally Posted by aki13

Question.

If the rule wasn't bought in to ban team orders a while ago, would the reaction be different.

Don't get me wrong I am really disappointed with the way things happened, but I would just like to know.

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I would probably still be unhappy however it would have been legal to do it, even if unfair.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Wow! Rob expects fans to buy that crap?

“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once.”

:rolleyes:

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What do you expect Smedley to do? Sure he's disappointed but he's not stupid. He knows there's nothing to gain by making things harder for the team. Felipe has already done that (not that I blame him by the way, even if I have no problem with the call).

Is there any official investigation or protest?
I have heard nothing, so are we all moaning over nothing except prinicple????

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Wow! Rob expects fans to buy that crap?

“I don’t expect any penalties whatsoever because Alonso was just faster and Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once.”

:rolleyes:

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Sorry Ferrari, us fans are not as gullible as you think we are

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Originally Posted by aki13

Question.

If the rule wasn't bought in to ban team orders a while ago, would the reaction be different.

Don't get me wrong I am really disappointed with the way things happened, but I would just like to know.

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I do have some limited sympathy with the view that it's not a good rule, but once it was decided that this is the rule then the drivers and teams must respect it. Ferrari didn't.

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Originally Posted by aki13

Question.

If the rule wasn't bought in to ban team orders a while ago, would the reaction be different.

Don't get me wrong I am really disappointed with the way things happened, but I would just like to know.

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people would still be angry and even though there might not be a penalty for the action, it will still be a pr disaster for F1 and leave millions of fans disturbed by the result. A quick look at how the audience reacted to the podium celebration and post race should tell you that most were disgusted

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

What do you expect Smedley to do? Sure he's disappointed but he's not stupid. He knows there's nothing to gain by making things harder for the team. Felipe has already done that (not that I blame him by the way, even if I have no problem with the call).

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Just hard for me to understand how Rob can say that to the press. I thought Rob would be too ashamed to say anything and just skip away to his trailer.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Is there any official investigation or protest?
I have heard nothing, so are we all moaning over nothing except prinicple????

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No and yes.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Is there any official investigation or protest?
I have heard nothing, so are we all moaning over nothing except prinicple????

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I'd say so. I don't think any of the teams will make a formal protest as they know the same thing could happen to them. If Red Bull protest this result then they are going to have a problem if they need to do something similar in the last couple of races.

3 gears at once my arse, the replay with telemetry clearly showed that he was not on full throttle and shifted at about 14k revs for a couple fo gears and then got back on the gas when Alonso was nealry alongside, there was no mistake and it is so insulting to suggest there was.

They have brought a ****storm on themselves and are cowering trying to deflect the brown stuff.

Massa may have been a little lucky to find himself in the lead but once there he deserved it and Alonso couldn't pass, that should have been race over

All Ferrari members being interview at the moment are all treating us like idiots.

"Their were no orders given"
"What decision"
"Felipe struggling on hard tyres"

All B.S

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I'd say so. I don't think any of the teams will make a formal protest as they know the same thing could happen to them. If Red Bull protest this result then they are going to have a problem if they need to do something similar in the last couple of races.

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if there is no investigation, then the rule needs to go......

what a joke

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I'd say so. I don't think any of the teams will make a formal protest as they know the same thing could happen to them. If Red Bull protest this result then they are going to have a problem if they need to do something similar in the last couple of races.

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IMO RBR should protest even if it is just because they can be sure that if hey do something half as bad later this season Ferrari will protest it without thinking twice.

RBR and McLaren should be the ones who make it stick now. I sure would do it.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I do have some limited sympathy with the view that it's not a good rule, but once it was decided that this is the rule then the drivers and teams must respect it. Ferrari didn't.

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It's not so much the "rule breaking" that's the problem, but the vast majority of the fans feel cheated. Massa deserved that win and the fans agree. And their whitewashing is a joke, the fans are not stupid.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

3 gears at once my arse, the replay with telemetry clearly showed that he was not on full throttle and shifted at about 14k revs for a couple fo gears and then got back on the gas when Alonso was nealry alongside, there was no mistake and it is so insulting to suggest there was.

They have brought a ****storm on themselves and are cowering trying to deflect the brown stuff.

Massa may have been a little lucky to find himself in the lead but once there he deserved it and Alonso couldn't pass, that should have been race over

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oh yes, that little TV screen stuff.......opps :eek:

Actually drivers always slow down after a hairpin turn......

But in the absence of a real investigation, well, it is now only principle

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Originally Posted by christophulus

It's not so much the "rule breaking" that's the problem, but the vast majority of the fans feel cheated. Massa deserved that win and the fans agree. And their whitewashing is a joke, the fans are not stupid.

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I agree. F1 needs to decide if it's a team sport or a driver sport. If it really is a team sport, like football, then to borrow footballing language it doesn't matter who scores the goals just as long as somebody does.

But all the time there's a drivers' championship, team orders should be banned.

If Alonso was quicker, he should have overtaken Massa. He did try earlier in the race, and failed. The only team order should have been not to take each other out.

The Whiner is insisting in the post-race interviews that he was faster all weekend. So what? Why race at all? Vettel was fastest in qualifying so surely we should just give him the win on Saturday and be done with it?

Glad to see the press are laying into Ferrari over this.

The press conference, Alonso's reply to all the questions from the media (from Ted Kravitz, BBC)

"I was faster than Felipe all weekend and I was 2 thousandths off pole, Felipe was'nt"

And Massa

"It was my decision to let Fernando through"

Any bets that Ferrari have told Felipe what to say?

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Originally Posted by christophulus

The Whiner is insisting in the post-race interviews that he was faster all weekend. So what? Why race at all? Vettel was fastest in qualifying so surely we should just give him the win on Saturday and be done with it?

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Very good point. If you're faster, overtake the guy and win the race on the track - not on the pit wall.

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Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy.

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http://twitter.com/NobleF1

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Originally Posted by ioan

IMO RBR should protest even if it is just because they can be sure that if hey do something half as bad later this season Ferrari will protest it without thinking twice.

RBR and McLaren should be the ones who make it stick now. I sure would do it.

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Of course Ferrari would protest. If they can't do why should the other teams get away with it? They would be no more hypocritical than Red Bull who protested Ferrari and then did the same thing.

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Originally Posted by christophulus

The Whiner is insisting in the post-race interviews that he was faster all weekend. So what? Why race at all? Vettel was fastest in qualifying so surely we should just give him the win on Saturday and be done with it?

Glad to see the press are laying into Ferrari over this.

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Screw mono-brow, I feel a need to vomit as soon as I see his name.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Very good point. If you're faster, overtake the guy and win the race on the track - not on the pit wall.

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Seconded :beer:

I'm off to bed. Have fun burning all those Ferrari flags! ;)

Bad form by Ferrari, but I'll take it ;)
Massa never would have been in p1 if Vettel hadn't have tried to plant Fred into the wall! That doesn't make it any less unfair to Massa. He drove a decent race with clean air for the majority of the laps. Ferrari being 1, 2 gave them the luxury of posturing themselves for the best result for both championships.
That’s my take!

I wonder what would have happened if Massa had waited and done a Barrichello and let Alonso past in the last corner.

so there will be an investigation after all, and NOW I really feel bad for Massa....what is the poor guy to do???

How would you like to be in his shoes. :confused:

He could lie, but who would beleive that when he says (1) screwed up the shifting or (2) it was my decision and nobody else's........

If he says the truth, well next year or sooner, he could drive a lotus... :eek:

best he could hope for is a swap out with webber.....but imagine Webber pulling over for freddie...just as the door is opened, his real nature kicks into play, and chop...off goeth Alonso... :rotflmao:




Meanwhile vettel says, oh, you are just the team mate i always wanted...but why is "welcome" written on your forehead???

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Bad form by Ferrari, but I'll take it ;)
Massa never would have been in p1 if Vettel hadn't have tried to plant Fred into the wall! That doesn't make it any less unfair to Massa. He drove a decent race with clean air for the majority of the laps. Ferrari being 1, 2 gave them the luxury of posturing themselves for the best result for both championships.
That’s my take!

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One voice singing in the darkness. :eek:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

NOW I really feel bad for Massa....what is the poor guy to do???

If he says the truth, well next year or sooner, he could drive a lotus... :eek:

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I hope he leaves, why would anyone want to be a number 2 driver, picking up scraps that the management give you? Massa needs to at least be on equal footing with his team-mate, and if he has to move teams to do it then he should do.

Interesting

Martin Brundle just made the point and I think someone here made earlier, why is the Stewards inquiry starting now, if its worthy of investigation why didn't a message come up with 15 laps to go "Incident will be investigated after the race"

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Originally Posted by aki13

I wonder what would have happened if Massa had waited and done a Barrichello and let Alonso past in the last corner.

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That would have been quite funny. :D

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Originally Posted by aki13

Interesting

Martin Brundle just made the point and I think someone here made earlier, why is the Stewards inquiry starting now, if its worthy of investigation why didn't a message come up with 15 laps to go "Incident will be investigated after the race"

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I find that bizarre too, I mean we all saw the move happen there and then, we heard the radio feeds.

I thought the FIA had gotten over the "long delay in decision making" malarky after that mess over Hamilton's safety car pass in Valencia

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Originally Posted by aki13

if its worthy of investigation why didn't a message come up with 15 laps to go "Incident will be investigated after the race"

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Media and fan pressure? No-one, bar half of the Ferrari team, is happy about what happened.

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Originally Posted by Rodster

That would have been quite funny. :D

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Yer then Ferrari would struggle to argue it wasn't team orders and they would have all cried on the wall "Not Again"

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I'm off to bed. Have fun burning all those Ferrari flags! ;)

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Luckily I never had one given the price they are asking for them.

From the true Machevillian aka markabilly point of view, the worst thing of all, is that there are so many better ways of having team orders control, where it can be debated as to what may have happenned, IF EVEN NOTICED AT ALL; yet, here it is so stupidly, clearly, obviously, in your face, blatant....


How stupid can ferrari be???

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Originally Posted by aki13

Interesting

Martin Brundle just made the point and I think someone here made earlier, why is the Stewards inquiry starting now, if its worthy of investigation why didn't a message come up with 15 laps to go "Incident will be investigated after the race"

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I think the todt lead FIA were planning on doing nothing before figuring out the massive fallout that is sure to ensure from this outcome from fans, media, the press, betting sites, sponsors, race organizers, promoters, tv channels and the millions they invest to produce and deliver the race, etc will all be a situation that the sport would have a tough time reconciling with. People expect a race not a fixed outcome.

Vettel, after the Beeb showed him the clip: "I think the FIA know what the rules are and what they should do."

Also, that he's relieved the "many bad questions" are directed at someone else :)

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Originally Posted by markabilly

From the true Machevillian aka markabilly point of view, the worst thing of all, is that there are so many better ways of having team orders control, where it can be debated as to what may have happenned, IF EVEN NOTICED AT ALL; yet, here it is so stupidly, clearly, obviously, in your face, blatant....

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Indeed. Conserve fuel, look after your brakes, change your engine mapping... any of those would have at least disguised the order. Ferrari added insult to injury by treating everybody like idiots.

The FIA are seeing the outrage and suddenly decided 'OOOOOPs. We had better pretend to look at this.'
I will now watch the FOX (Speed) broadcast at noon our time and see what Varsha, Hobbs and Matchett have to say. Hobbs is usually sarcastic and Matchett doesn't pull any punches.