Local Press'es Take on Danica at LBGP

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Originally Posted by TURN3

Are you talking about 5 or 6 years ago? I can only assume with your referrence to when Danica "almost won" Indy...not sure when that was. Maybe you mean the year she was in the lead without enough fuel to go the distance at full-rich. "Almost" winning Indy is what Rick Mears did when Gordy beat him, "Almost" winning Indy is what Scott Goodyear did when Al Jr. beat him, not sure how being passed with 14 laps or so to go is "Almost" winning anything when you end up 4th a straightaway behind the actual winner.

If that is the timeframe you were referring to, I misunterstood you so my reply may not have made sense. Either way, Indycar/CART/IRL/Champcar/USAC/AAA existed well before Danica and it or some new evolution of it will exist well past Danica's existence in another 2 years or so. Danica was more important during her first 2+ years probably 3 of her career while the split was winding down but what was even more important? Indy. It may come a surprise to some but Indy existed before Danica and in fact will also exist well past her. If it weren't for Danica spinning and taking out 3 contenders the year she lead, she would never have been out of sequence to be in a position to lead without enough fuel. Fact is that happened and she led a few laps by circumstanes that she created...and Indy is what made her a star...not vice versa.

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Yes, all that is true, all true, and as you get older, something ten years ago, seems like last year, and just a couple of years ago, I watched men walk on the moon, live on TV, in living black and white----something many of you can not say!!!

Indy was the thing that created her and that was the race I was referencing; however, as time has passed, Indy has become far less than what it was.

As a youngster in the sixties, it was the OVERWHELMING race over everything else, including that backwoods feeder series known as F1 or LeMans, and Daytona was not even a blimp on the radar screen..... Unfortunately as to other open wheel racing, there was Waktins Glen and some USAC events that most folks pretty much ignored, but INDY WAS INDY!!!

And there was a time when the month of MAy was the RACE, and nothing else raced at Indy. Indeed, who would have ever thought stock cars, motocycles, and f1....

The final blow came with the split, and I figured whoever had Indy would be the survivor, but the split went on far too long, the magic disappearred, even from Indy.....and nascar filled the vaccum for many---and it says it all, when what i thought to be the last really talented potential superstar for either series that got himself major PR was Tony Stewart, and then he went nascar.....well....



So frankly even Indy will suffer greatly from TV viewership being down further, sponsor interest being down further, if DP blows and goes away...

and Indy better figure out a lifeline or else....it just becomes another racetrack for stock cars and motorcycles...

sad so sad, as I feel part of my heritage is being lost, year by year...

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Originally Posted by NickFalzone

I think the mistake here is believing that a "star is born" rather than the reality these days: "a star is made". Danica is a star because media companies have promoted her. Granted, she had some looks and some OK driving ability to assist in their promotions. But Danica is the most popular and recognized star in IndyCar purely because corporations for several years now have put money into promoting her image. As the rodeo-guy we have in charge now has said on several occasions, the series needs to do the same for many of the other drivers in the field. Franchitti, Briscoe, Rahal, Hunter-Reay, and many others COULD be corporate "brands" should certain companies choose them. I think Simona could as well. IZOD has already started to promote many of them, and I think we will see a new "star" or two in the series within the next year. And it will NOT be a "coincidence" or a "star is born", it will simply be a lot of corporate money thrown at one or two individuals that gets their image into public consciousness.

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Dream on, they got nothing to offer to the media wizards...no pop, and none of them appear to be ground breaking, ie, a woman winning the Indy 500---those few moments when she lead the 500, whenever that was, that did it for her.....and why sarah fisher, lyn and the rest are still in the dark.

and DP has plenty of pop, even if it means taking a shower or two with the camera on....Yeah, I could not imagine, though it might happen, Rahal doing the shower scene with Hunter Reay, vis-a-vis my signature.... :dozey:


but the IRL better find something real soon....

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Dream on, they got nothing to offer to the media wizards...no pop, and none of them appear to be ground breaking, ie, a woman winning the Indy 500---those few moments when she lead the 500, whenever that was, that did it for her.....and why sarah fisher, lyn and the rest are still in the dark.

and DP has plenty of pop, even if it means taking a shower or two with the camera on....Yeah, I could not imagine, though it might happen, Rahal doing the shower scene with Hunter Reay, vis-a-vis my signature.... :dozey:


but the IRL better find something real soon....

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NASCAR does it. IndyCar can do it. It's all about $$ and corporations spending it to promote these individuals. If Tony Stewart was in IndyCar now, he'd be just about as well known as Dario, Briscoe, or Hunter-Reay. But he's in NASCAR, and on the regular is seen on your TV selling Old Spice, previously Home Depot, etc. His "story" as a person does not matter one bit. NASCAR has at least 10-15 drivers right now that are as well promoted and in the public-consciousness as much as Danica. It's real easy to have that when large corporations put you in their ads on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Dream on, they got nothing to offer to the media wizards...no pop, and none of them appear to be ground breaking, ie, a woman winning the Indy 500---those few moments when she lead the 500, whenever that was, that did it for her.....and why sarah fisher, lyn and the rest are still in the dark.

and DP has plenty of pop, even if it means taking a shower or two with the camera on....Yeah, I could not imagine, though it might happen, Rahal doing the shower scene with Hunter Reay, vis-a-vis my signature.... :dozey:


but the IRL better find something real soon....

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I get it! You are the guy in the pimpdaddy ad watching Danica take a shower!

Perhaps the problem is that other racing personalities have nothing to offer to you? You do seem easily impressed.

If you follow any of the press lately, Sarah Fisher for one has had a tremendous amount of positive press about her role as a driver /owner. Much of that has been in traditional media, not racing media. It has been widely reported that Simona had more media interest at Long Beach than the Danica! brand. But they may be marketing to a different demographic than yours so you didn't notice - no shower scenes and they had all of their clothes on.

The problem with "one hit wonders" is that they can create a lot of "pop" for a short time, but that bubble can burst very quickly if they can't follow that success up with similar repeat performances. Danica has always shown promise but that promise has never translated into the level of success on track suggested by her hype.

The only thing "groundbreaking" about Danica is that she never promoted herself as "just a driver". She played the sex card (often) to get ahead and still plays that card to maintain her celebrity. To some old time fans, she has made a mockery of the idea that drivers become heroes from racing success, not from activities unrelated to racing. She is a sideshow, not the main event.

Danica promotes the Danica brand, not the IRL. As soon as she ran one or two Nationwide races, some media was already calling her "NASCAR driver and former open wheel driver Danica Patrick". This whole stock car experiment may really backfire on any positive "pop" she has created for the IRL if she continues to be dismal in the cars. It would just be another affirmation for those NASCAR fans who think the IRL doesn't have quality drivers when the driver who was 5th place points can't take one of the best cars on the track and drive it fast enough to qualify on speed, or even keep it on the lead lap. They will remember that Kelly Bires did better on the same team and he got fired. The NASCAR forums are already buzzing with that topic. Her continued poor performance will be very negative press for the IRL. The only "pop" is the sound of the bubble bursting.

I am not surprised to see IZOD and the IRL working hard to promote drivers other that the "brand". They represent the true heart of open wheel, and promote the series, not themselves. I really don't think the image of the Danica! brand is either good for the IRL or effective for the IRL.. The brand is good for Danica, but she doesn't promote the IRL. When she is gone, she will be another interesting footnote about marketing novelty acts.

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Originally Posted by beachbum

I get it! You are the guy in the pimpdaddy ad watching Danica take a shower!

To some old time fans, she has made a mockery of the idea that drivers become heroes from racing success, not from activities unrelated to racing. She is a sideshow, not the main event.

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Yes, I love my orange pimpdaddy suit, :up:

and if Sarah and any of the rest want to jump in shower, I will get my camera rolling :s mokin:

and yes, that would be me, an old time fan.....years before you were born.....the Sixties if you had bothered to read all my posts...... when the Indy cars still sounded like real screaming race cars, with real superstars like Gurney, Clark, Andretti (no NOT that one, the original), Foyt, Ruby (bet u never heard of him), Jones, Donohue, Rutherford and many others drove Indy, even as late as when Mansell drove Indy

Danica did not make a "mockery"; Indy, champ car and the IRL did that to themselves

and if you could detect what I really think, you would know that I do not think she should even be part of the sideshow....but she has become the main event, and to repeat, indy and the irl did that to themselves


:vader:

Markabilly, I would only make Danica part of the main event if SHE was part of the main event by winning. Promoting a driver who isn't there purely based on their results is unhealthy for the series. Selling the sizzle as opposed to the steak. What meat there is on the Danica story is pretty tough. She isn't up front week after week on speed. She finished 5th in points last year but no one is fooled. She got there by avoiding everyone while people like Tony Kanaan crashed or blew up trying to WIN and mixing it up.

Good racing, drivers who show their charisma behind the wheel are the ones you promote. Not the side show.

Danica goes to NASCAR, I suspect within a year the IRL will be probably be better off. NASCAR fans already think the IRL is a waste of time, and Danica will add to that I agree, but in the end, intelligent fans of racing will figure out in time that the IRL is just a different world, and you don't jump from one to the other and expect success. Given enough time, the jump can be made, but people in NASCAR are just so hung up on what they think racing should be, nothing rational or logical will change it. The average NASCAR fan doesn't care about the IRL and never did. Those who USED to watch the IRL should know better, and if the IRL gets better, will get those fans back. It is possible to watch and be a fan of both series. I do it all the time...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Markabilly, I would only make Danica part of the main event if SHE was part of the main event by winning. Promoting a driver who isn't there purely based on their results is unhealthy for the series. ...

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She ain't winning and her talent does not even qualify as a side show....unfortunately, she is and has been the IRL main event for far too long and now it is worse than merely being unhealthy for the series, but nobody to blame except the IRL and Indy

(and thos sorry reporters but u know what i think about reporters :down: )

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Originally Posted by markabilly

She ain't winning and her talent does not even qualify as a side show....unfortunately, she is and has been the IRL main event for far too long and now it is worse than merely being unhealthy for the series, but nobody to blame except the IRL and Indy

(and thos sorry reporters but u know what i think about reporters :down: )

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I blame ABC/ESPN really...

Danica got near the lead through clever fuel strategy when she was racing for Rahal at the Indy 500 and people got this sudden brain wave she was good at this racing thing.

The IRL has done nothing to stop the silliness but really, it is ABC/ESPN feeding this to the public. The reality is, their ratings have sucked downward in this period. I think a case might be made she has actually HURT ratings and the attention span of the North American racing fan...

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Originally Posted by markabilly

...an old time fan.....years before you were born.....the Sixties if you had bothered to read all my posts......

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I saw my first Indy car race at Langhorne - when it was dirt. I listened on the radio to Jack Brabham at Indy. I remember my grandfather complaining he didn't think he would go to Daytona if they weren't going to race on the beach anymore. The new track was going to ruin racing when it was opened. I could have gone to one of the Stones first US concerts but since nobody knew who they were, the free tickets weren't enough to get me to go. (I heard from my buddies it was a great concert)

I am of a generation that can "proudly" state - if you remember the 60's, you weren't there. So keep your age insults to yourself.

Incidentally, I met Mark Donohue at an SAE meeting -when I was in college. A very nice down to earth guy who talked racing until they turned the lights out on us. And I do know who Lloyd Ruby is, and Eddie Sachs, Vuky, Sam Hanks, Roger Ward, Johnny Thomson, Don Branson, Hurtubise .......... remember them?

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Originally Posted by beachbum

I am of a generation that can "proudly" state - if you remember the 60's, you weren't there. So keep your age insults to yourself.
....................
remember them?

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well godurnit, you are an old fart. Must be older than drifter and that is ancient.

The ones who do remember the sixties, like me, is cause I weren't old enough to engage in stuff that erroded the memory...... but things do get sort of blurry about 69 when I owned the road...until i took a little trip in the very early 70's 'in country" .......

Vuky was a couple of years before I became aware.

But you got to admit, it is sad to see the heritage drug down like it has the last few years, ain't it?

esp when self-inflicted

and from the very banner flying over this thread....err.....you guys were all saying what???

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Danica Patrick Honda Film
Watch now to discover the upside of failure through Danica Patrick.

www.honda.com

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SEE THE WROLD SPINNING ROUND ROUND AND ROUND

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

I blame ABC/ESPN really...

Danica got near the lead through clever fuel strategy when she was racing for Rahal at the Indy 500 and people got this sudden brain wave she was good at this racing thing.

The IRL has done nothing to stop the silliness but really, it is ABC/ESPN feeding this to the public. The reality is, their ratings have sucked downward in this period. I think a case might be made she has actually HURT ratings and the attention span of the North American racing fan...

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I think it would have only been worse without her, because there was nothing else....everybody else done gone nascar. Mind you all, I don't like it, but just tellin it as it is....

and see the media can even put its own spin on it..."discover the upside of failure"......spinnin round and round, where she goes nobody knows...hey now, discover the upside of having your brains all sucked out your nostril....

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Originally Posted by markabilly

I think it would have only been worse without her, because there was nothing else....everybody else done gone nascar. Mind you all, I don't like it, but just tellin it as it is....

and see the media can even put its own spin on it..."discover the upside of failure"......spinnin round and round, where she goes nobody knows...hey now, discover the upside of having your brains all sucked out your nostril....

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Well, considering how they make up how she is competitive in situations where she clearly isn't, I am sure they could have plucked someone, say Scott Dixon and made him a media darling or something. Someone with wins....that would have been really novel don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Well, considering how they make up how she is competitive in situations where she clearly isn't, I am sure they could have plucked someone, say Scott Dixon and made him a media darling or something. Someone with wins....that would have been really novel don't you think?

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Who?
Is this Dixon female?
Did Dixon "almost win" Indy as a female?
Does Dixon look good laying on a car, nearly naked?
How many SI swimsuit editions has this Dixon appeared, nearly naked?
ever seen one banner with Dixon on this forum?
...or a godaddy commercial?
Not even a good name, like DAN-ne-KA

Maybe if he or she ever wins a race or two, then moves to Nascar for real superstadom....Dixie and Dixon, there is a combo in that

If I were nascar and heard DANneKA was coming, I would change out the locks and hide the keys.....

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Originally Posted by markabilly

But you got to admit, it is sad to see the heritage drug down like it has the last few years, ain't it?

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Nope, not at all. One of the life lessons I have learned it that time marches on. You can't turn back the clock. I have also learned that hindsight almost always distorts the truth. We remember the good things and skip the bad.

I had an advantage growing up of knowing a bit more of the inside of racing that some fans. My grandfather was a huge race fan and personally knew a lot of the people in the sport. He was a good friend of Tom McCahill, so he got to meet some interesting people like Smokey Yunick (who rebuilt his new Chrysler 300's front suspension in the middle of speed weeks between working on race cars). Back in the day wasn't all that great. Right after I got married, our next door neighbor was an admitted pit bunny and dated Bill Simpson and Steve Krisiloff, so we got to hear a lot about open wheel as well. It wasn't as glamorous as nostalgia would suggest. I was also involved in various competition and racing scenes for many years and lived the gypsy life.

IMHO, the real heritage of the past involves a bunch of speed junkies who lived like poor gypsies (because most were) and risked life and limb because they loved racing and mainly beating the other guy (or lady). Yes women have been in racing a long time. Did you know that in 1988-89 there were 4 women racing AMA Pro Superbike, a couple on a regular basis? Another would show up once in a while and is still racing cars today. All of them make Danica look like a whiny wimp. Racing wasn't glamorous, TV coverage wasn't much except for "major" events, and very few racers earned a living at it.

All of that heritage is why I have little respect for Danica. She didn't earn her status in racing by working her way up with racing sucesses. She latched onto a couple sugar daddies (ok mentors), chucked her clothes to play the sex card, and parlayed her meager assets into fame and fortune. She didn't earn her way to the top, she bought her way to the top with those assets. She has just enough driving talent to hang onto her status, as long as she has the backers to keep her there

As for the implication that "the split" destroyed open wheel, some "fans" haven't been around long enough to have seen the battles between other sanctioning bodies and the rise and fall of great racing series. What we have today is the survival of the fittest, a sort of morphing between F5000, European style racing, and the more traditional Indy car oval racing.

Heritage may be nice to reminisce about, built it is just a building block along the way. Today we have probably one of the most competitive periods in open wheel - ever. On any given weekend, the competition is very tight. The spread across the field is very small. Sure, the best teams dominate - they always have. But even the small teams in the back still have a chance to run well and get a good result. It isn't perfect, but racing has never been perfect. That why they run the races.

I may be "old" in your eyes, but i don't live in the past.

Age is a number, old is an attitude.

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

But acting like a 12 year old is just immature. You sure have some strange attitudes about women. I guess you have never spent much time around one who is competitive, driven, and tough. (or married to one like I have been for a long time). They seem to be just sex objects to you. Sad.

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Originally Posted by beachbum

As for the implication that "the split" destroyed open wheel, some "fans" haven't been around long enough to have seen the battles between other sanctioning bodies and the rise and fall of great racing series. What we have today is the survival of the fittest, a sort of morphing between F5000, European style racing, and the more traditional Indy car oval racing.

.

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??

"great racing series" has never included the IRL, despite the presence of Indy, which for that reason alone, permitted it to linger on as a series, rather than just one race at Indy.
Just temporary survival of the least mortally wounded who is slowly bleeding out with its one small bandage about to jump ship.

But i guess it is not much to be joyful about when Daneka playing her sex card (upon THAT i can agree) is all you got left with the IRL after some great OW racing from a number of years ago before the split became so wide :(
Indy 500 is the only race that helped keep it afloat but like the Titanic , seems to have some leaking problems. But not too worry, there is always the Brickyard 400, motogp and even a return of F1

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Originally Posted by markabilly

??

"great racing series" has never included the IRL, despite the presence of Indy, which for that reason alone, permitted it to linger on as a series, rather than just one race at Indy.
Just temporary survival of the least mortally wounded who is slowly bleeding out with its one small bandage about to jump ship.

But i guess it is not much to be joyful about when Daneka playing her sex card (upon THAT i can agree) is all you got left with the IRL after some great OW racing from a number of years ago before the split became so wide :(
Indy 500 is the only race that helped keep it afloat but like the Titanic , seems to have some leaking problems. But not too worry, there is always the Brickyard 400, motogp and even a return of F1

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I take it that you were on the "other" side of the split. That war is over - move on.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Did Dixon "almost win" Indy as a female?

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That is 2x you've said this. What the bleep are you talking about? What female "almost" won Indy?

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Originally Posted by beachbum

I take it that you were on the "other" side of the split. That war is over - move on.

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Actually not. I was mad at both sides, and thought for sure they would work out some sort of reasonable accomodation, but like it or not, was convinced that whoever had Indy would win.
Never thought it would go on for so long.
Then the tobacco money was finally stopped, something that really funded some great teams and series over the years, esp before the split and was what kept CC alive, things started getting dark but nobody noticed..

So I think the general interest, esp with OW racing, began to evaporate as by themselves, neither series offered all that much before the drought and CC offered zero, once their funding dried up.

Then along come Danica, and the novelty of a sex kitten as a "racer". Poor substitute for the tobacco money and with people like Tony Stewart headed for "greener" (money) pastures, well....But it was more than CC had......Unfortunately as PT barum once said, one will never go broke underestimating the taste of the american public....

Even JPM turned his nose up at OW racing when he could do nascar, as have a number of OW racers who have tried to jump.

Yet, in 1993, Nigel Mansell, two times WDC, winner of 31 F1 races (4th overall behind MS, Prost, Senna), still in his prime from his WDC of the year before, came to Indy and the series....

if the IRL does not make some radical changes, to provide something more than stock car racing with open wheels......like the thrill, acceleration and scream of a F1 car (or the cars before the IRL version came along) when it leaves pit lane....not even indy 500 will save it. :(

and I will add, that i do not think the vision and financial strenght necessary to support such changes, is present anymore within indy or the irl....that just leaves novelty acts like Danica and at the later date when she finally goes, whoever/whatever "sex object" or "sidebar novelty acts", if any, can be found to replace her--hence my satire about dixon.

(BTW as to living in the past, as some have said, those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat its mistakes....or as Einstein once said, the definition of an idiot, is one who keeps doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result each time)

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Originally Posted by markabilly

or as Einstein once said, the definition of an idiot, is one who keeps doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result each time)

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Actually that was his definition of insanity. And there is a difference between learning from history and moving on versus dwelling in that history. Clearly you don't sem to understand the difference.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Actually that was his definition of insanity. And there is a difference between learning from history and moving on versus dwelling in that history. Clearly you don't sem to understand the difference.

Gary

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clearly the irl does not

and some folks around here seem to be stuck in the failure of the present, thinking no more danica, will save them, when the clear lesson is that it will not,

not without much more than what has been offered and that is the lesson of CC

and i am not the one wishing for the good ole days of no danica

just the good old days when the drivers were clearly without question among the best in the world, and to hear one coming down the straight was bone tingling

since that fateful day in May have attendance and ratings steadily increased or declined?

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Originally Posted by markabilly

just the good old days when the drivers were clearly without question among the best in the world...

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When was that exactly?

Newsflash....the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing have NEVER had most of the best drivers in the world. Never have and never will.

All I'd like to see again is the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing to draw some of the best AMERICAN drivers again. They used to at least do that in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

That is where it needs to start. Then once you start doing that, then worry about the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

and i am not the one wishing for the good ole days of no danica

just the good old days when the drivers were clearly without question among the best in the world, and to hear one coming down the straight was bone tingling

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Are you sure you didn't partake of some of the "recreational" substances in the 70's? Maybe just a few mushrooms?

While there have always been good drivers and even a few great ones, there has also always been a steady helping of field fillers.

"bone tingling" Somehow that isn't a word I would use for an Offy and almost any Turbo. Maybe the Novi......

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

When was that exactly?

Newsflash....the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing have NEVER had most of the best drivers in the world. Never have and never will.

All I'd like to see again is the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing to draw some of the best AMERICAN drivers again. They used to at least do that in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

That is where it needs to start. Then once you start doing that, then worry about the rest of the world.

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There you go lost in that American drivers fog again. The problem with that Scott is as I told you, they are choosing NOT to go to the IRL...and while you will disagree I am sure (you have never failed to disagree on this point yet), it is simply a case of most OW formula style racers in the junior formula in the US are not always even American. The top talents in driving cars with wings and the engine in the back are coming from Europe as often as not.

It isn't 1960 and you hit on driving the Indycars after a season of USAC Sprints and midgets. Tony Stewart was the last really amazing driver out of that world to come to the Indycar world....and he left for the money and to race 36 times a year in NASCAR. It is the MONEY that is pulling them to NASCAR, and they don't have to worry about bringing their own sponsors.

I hope more American drivers DO get rides and the heritage of this sport in America isn't lost, but it is an economic thing, and the economics of this sport went south with the split and the loss of the tobacco money.

I do know this much. I still am flummoxed why Danica ended up being the biggest star. Last time I looked, the big stars are the people who won. It is only in the last two years since the merge that Danica's influence in the IRL has started to wane.....

I think the competitive balance on track has been the best it has been in years on track, and that is the project of the merger. I think if the car rules and chassis rules were opened back up, the on track product would follow and I think with THAT, the needles on ratings and attention would go up. Once that happens, the sponsors come back, and then it is a valid destination vs NASCAR for OW drivers in North America. It is going to be a long road back...and I am thinking the gimmick of female race drivers has gone a few minutes longer than the 15 minutes it should have.

I assume others have read the article on Danica on SI.com? Funny how Tom Anderson tries his hardest to keep from calling her out, but basically says she can't handle a fast car and all of her teammates can. On the flip side, one of Danica's mild attempts as an excuse is to say this is her 3rd strategist in 4 years and Tom misses things and doesn't know her yet. Hmmm, what was her excuse each of the past years. She's never done well on a road course short of when she had the trick steering for the 2 or 3 road course events they had at that point. Somebody might want to point out to the Danica that Tom Anderson's credentials at his job are possibly hall of fame worthy while she has yet to crack the Barber Pro talent level. She sucks.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

When was that exactly?

Newsflash....the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing have NEVER had most of the best drivers in the world. Never have and never will.

All I'd like to see again is the Indy 500 and Indy Car Racing to draw some of the best AMERICAN drivers again. They used to at least do that in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

That is where it needs to start. Then once you start doing that, then worry about the rest of the world.

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well I dont disagree except I said "among the best", but maybe you be right.

Jim Clark, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Graham Hill, AJ Foyt, Unsers brothers, Mark Donohue, Jackie Stewart, Parnelli Jones, Sneva, Mears, and even much later, Nigel Mansell, JV (a mere rookie Indy winner and a WDC), JPM--another rookie winner, Greg Moore, among a number of others.....

Yeah I agree, those guys were not among the best in the world. Not even close. What did beachbum call them? Just field fillers...

:dozey:

Funny, in the sixties, every one of the best drivers I can think of, recognized not only in the USA, but the world over as being the challengers for the title of the best there ever was, well the only one I can think of who did NOT race Indy, was John Surtees.

But you are right, I am dwelling in the past, and should be thrilled about the way of the new or old IRL, with or without Danica.

Those old dreams of an idle old fool like me, and all that history is gone, and with it the faint hope of a return to greatness being just ashes in the wind, never to return.
You win.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Jim Clark, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Graham Hill, AJ Foyt, Unsers brothers, Mark Donohue, Jackie Stewart, Parnelli Jones, Sneva, Mears, and even much later, Nigel Mansell, JV (a mere rookie Indy winner and a WDC), JPM--another rookie winner, Greg Moore, among a number of others.....

Yeah I agree, those guys were not among the best in the world. Not even close. What did beachbum call them? Just field fillers...

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Perhaps you ought to step back off your little cloud and actually read what Beachbum wrote. He did not call those fantastic racers field fillers. He did not name anyone at all.

Talk about agendas. You've got a one for some reason.

Well you know...Americans never appreciate racing talent from outside the USA Markabilly. Like you guys, you just hated Nigel Mansell, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, Graham Hill, Emmo Fittapaldi and Zanardi. Bums..all of em...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Well you know...Americans never appreciate racing talent from outside the USA Markabilly. Like you guys, you just hated Nigel Mansell, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, Graham Hill, Emmo Fittapaldi and Zanardi. Bums..all of em...

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i think you are wrong for almost all the current racing talent
(f1 rejects and wannabees) in the irl comes from elsewhere to run with the sons of andretti and rahal

someone here must like them

but the only name that for whatever reason, rings a bell here and across the world like the names mentioned in the above posts is danica, and she is american

sad so--i give up and will just dwell in the past

but HOLD ON ONE SECOND, the best racers in the world have come to indy in the last ten years, they came for the motogps, the f1 races and the brickyard 40:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

i think you are wrong for almost all the current racing talent
(f1 rejects and wannabees) in the irl comes from elsewhere to run with the sons of andretti and rahal

someone here must like them

but the only name that for whatever reason, rings a bell here and across the world like the names mentioned in the above posts is danica, and she is american

sad so--i give up and will just dwell in the past

but HOLD ON ONE SECOND, the best racers in the world have come to indy in the last ten years, they came for the motogps, the f1 races and the brickyard 40:D

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Well the BEST OW racers in the world are in the top 5 teams of F1. After that...I wouldn't want to say some of the backmarkers in f1 are any better than Dixon, Briscoe, Power and Castroneves.

The fact is, the IRL is just no longer a destination for the top talent from either continent any more. The late Greg Moore always wanted to win Indy, and other young Canadian drivers did too...but now...I suspect they all are looking to maybe see F1 at the ultimate goal because the money isn't in the IRL. IN short, the series has to get healthier. Once THAT happens, the top Americans and top Canadians will want to be there. Right now..young drivers are just as likely to see ALMS, NASCAR or one of the Euro junior formulae heading to F1 as a more worthy place. The decline of the Indycars is a symptom of the last 15 years of stupidity. Let's build a better series with money in it..and this problem solves it self. It still has good talent in it. You cannot tell me that Dario or Helio are poor drivers or incapable. I suspect given time, they could race anything....

To add to what Mark just said, I have a feeling that Will, Dario, Dixon and Helio could hold there own in F1 given top shelf equipment and team support. But I also think none of them are much interested in all the political BS and trappings that would go along with such a venture. Without a doubt F1 is the pinnacle of racing, but it's also the pinnacle of hassle as well.

Gary

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Originally Posted by markabilly

well I dont disagree except I said "among the best", but maybe you be right.

Jim Clark, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Graham Hill, AJ Foyt, Unsers brothers, Mark Donohue, Jackie Stewart, Parnelli Jones, Sneva, Mears, and even much later, Nigel Mansell, JV (a mere rookie Indy winner and a WDC), JPM--another rookie winner, Greg Moore, among a number of others.....

Yeah I agree, those guys were not among the best in the world. Not even close. What did beachbum call them? Just field fillers...

:dozey:

Funny, in the sixties, every one of the best drivers I can think of, recognized not only in the USA, but the world over as being the challengers for the title of the best there ever was, well the only one I can think of who did NOT race Indy, was John Surtees.

But you are right, I am dwelling in the past, and should be thrilled about the way of the new or old IRL, with or without Danica.

Those old dreams of an idle old fool like me, and all that history is gone, and with it the faint hope of a return to greatness being just ashes in the wind, never to return.
You win.

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Two words.....Dennis Vitolo.

Don't remember him? Ask one of what you consider one of the greatest racers in the world...Nigel Mansell

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Two words.....Dennis Vitolo.

Don't remember him? Ask one of what you consider one of the greatest racers in the world...Nigel Mansell

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There is a perfect example of a driver who was American but had no business behind the wheels of an Indycar. Nice guy I am sure...but the passport of the driver shouldn't be the first or second consideration of giving a guy a ride...

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Originally Posted by garyshell

To add to what Mark just said, I have a feeling that Will, Dario, Dixon and Helio could hold there own in F1 given top shelf equipment and team support. But I also think none of them are much interested in all the political BS and trappings that would go along with such a venture. Without a doubt F1 is the pinnacle of racing, but it's also the pinnacle of hassle as well.

Gary

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Can't speak for Dario but Will Power had F-1 as his goal. Scott Dixon had two tests with BMW/Williams and Helio would have cut off his arm to drive in F-1. politics and all.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

But I also think none of them are much interested in all the political BS and trappings that would go along with such a venture. Without a doubt F1 is the pinnacle of racing, but it's also the pinnacle of hassle as well.

Gary

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Can't speak for Dario but Will Power had F-1 as his goal. Scott Dixon had two tests with BMW/Williams and Helio would have cut off his arm to drive in F-1. politics and all.

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Notice the underlined and bolded word in my original quote?

Gary

I'm really disappointed how far off topic we are getting considering it is my favorite subject...BASHING DANICA!! LOL! :D

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Two words.....Dennis Vitolo.

Don't remember him? Ask one of what you consider one of the greatest racers in the world...Nigel Mansell

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so what is a lttle bump in the pits among buds?

Mansell was such a jerk he wore out his welcome in the USA and went back to win again in F1, only to wear out his welcome there as well...



WDC in 1992, got all pissy at his team, went off to CART and Indy in 1993 for two or more years, got all pissy again and in his forties went back to F1 in 1995 after being gone two years, and won again.

Situation not much different than MS and his return.

My point was that this is the type of driver who used to show up for the Indy 500.

The best were there, even under the snotty f1 definition of "the best", but no more.

and as anthonyvop put it, there are a number of current IRL drivers who have tried out or would love to be in F1, but just can not get in.

OTOH, I know of no current f1 driver wanting to race in the Indy 500 or the IRL.

American or foreigner, they all want NASCAR, not Indy or IRL.
JPM went back to nascar. Tony stewart went to Nascar. Even jarno Trulli wanted to go NASCAR--he did not ask to be in the Indy..... Even Scott Speed came back not to the IRL, but to trucks and stocks..........That is where they all want to go :dozey:

Even the DP wants to go NASCAR....... :rolleyes: